The Star Wars Saga

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Re: The Star Wars Saga

Post  blixie on Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:24 pm

I think
Spoiler:
brainwashed is somewhat possible (I don't think he's as powerful as Rey and indeed is quite weak so Snoke may really have the whammy on him), but IDK, I guess I'm one of those who still would like to see Kylo/Ben redeemed even after what he did. But that's based on a waterfall of assumptions about Ben and Rey being siblings-twins and both having to work together and literally balance the force, and heal Luke/Leia. I'm a sap that way.

I loved the movie pretty much unconditionally (despite it's various flaws) and think in most ways it's objectively a better movie than ANH, while still preferring IV because it was the FIRST and nothing will ever effect me as much as Star Wars did when I was five, I think I like TFA almost as much. The new characters had great chemistry and tons of charm, energy and humor (so much of what was missing in the prequels), so I'm totes looking forward to the rest of the story for them.

Now I just need to see it two more times to really savor the joyous experience of having a good Star Wars movie to talk about.

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Re: The Star Wars Saga

Post  ulkis on Tue Dec 22, 2015 4:58 pm

Do you think
Spoiler:
Rey and Ben are siblings? I doubt they are twins, and her being Luke's daughter seems more likely, but I'm still thinking there is a chance they're siblings simply because "duel between bro and sis" is a little more epic than "duel between first cousins".

I do think they're is a chance Han is only mostly dead since we didn't see his body, but I'm not putting too much stock in that.

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Re: The Star Wars Saga

Post  ulkis on Tue Dec 22, 2015 5:00 pm

blixie wrote:I loved the movie pretty much unconditionally (despite it's various flaws) and think in most ways it's objectively a better movie than ANH, while still preferring IV because it was the FIRST and nothing will ever effect me as much as Star Wars did when I was five, I think I like TFA almost as much. The new characters had great chemistry and tons of charm, energy and humor (so much of what was missing in the prequels), so I'm totes looking forward to the rest of the story for them.

I do think future generations may end up liking "Force Awakens" better than "A New Hope", simply because of 70s/80s special effects. Which makes me a little sad, but I guess at least if something is gonna replace it at least it is good.

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Re: The Star Wars Saga

Post  blixie on Tue Dec 22, 2015 5:41 pm

I don't think JJ would flaunt foreshadowing just to troll, he uses meta marketing to do his trolling.
Spoiler:
There is simply too many narrative clues pointing to Rey being a Solo for me to believe she's randomly a Skywalker, her innate ability with the Falcon, Han's almost instant affinity for her, and her literally taking over for Han w/Chewie as co-pilot, her hug with Leia, and her looks being so of a piece with Leia/Padme.

One of the biggest story criticisms of TFA, was that we had no context for the relationship between Han/Leia and Ben going pear shaped, but at least we were invested in Han/Leia, with Luke it will have to be relationship they build up on screen in story, I don't see them giving that much screen time to a historical romance that is now over and has been for years just to be PYSCHE she's a Skywalker!

And yeah narratively I don't think the conflict (or potential reconciliation) between "cousins" is as powerful and punchy as that between long separated padawan siblings. The twin thing I'm less married to speculation wise, so if they are just siblings that's fine, twins is more symmetrical with the sense of redo-ing yet also redefining the middle trilogy though.

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Re: The Star Wars Saga

Post  The Dude on Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:51 pm

ulkis wrote:
Dude is 83 and this is the 7th movie.

I'm 41 years young dammit!
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Re: The Star Wars Saga

Post  Carrie Ann on Tue Dec 22, 2015 9:33 pm

blixie wrote:I don't think JJ would flaunt foreshadowing just to troll, he uses meta marketing to do his trolling.
I just saw this today so I'm still catching up to thoughts about this.
Spoiler:
I really believed Rey was Han/Leia's too, but my question is why was Rey sent away, while Ben was raised by Han and Leia (at least for a time)? And also...if being that close to the end of the world wasn't the right time to tell her they were her parents, when would it ever be? I guess I just felt like while Han and Leia were in such anguish over Ben, I didn't see any of that emotion related to being reunited with their daughter (and her being in danger), and they must have known who she was, right? That was the only thing that gave me pause.
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Re: The Star Wars Saga

Post  blixie on Wed Dec 23, 2015 12:07 am

Carrie Ann
Spoiler:
Initially my thought process was obviously Han/Leia believe she died well before Ben went into training/dark side, and possibly Luke stashed her on Jakku and then bugged out himself. I need to re-watch or find a break down of her vision quest where she remembered being dumped on Jakku with what seemed to me to be Luke, and had vision/memory of Luke/R2 together) But it's a stretch that Leia would not sense her own daughter intuition or force wise. So Luke could definitely be her dad, or she could just be random Rey. She did seem on the older side when she was abandoned on Jakku so it seems weird she mentions family in only vague terms, but maybe Luke just brought a whole bucket of EXTRA and mind tricked her to forget Han/Lei/Ben, so she'd just sit there waiting for this vague memory of family, rather than specific people located in place X.

Then again Vader never "sensed" Leia was his either until Luke spilled the force feeling beans.

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Re: The Star Wars Saga

Post  ulkis on Wed Dec 23, 2015 1:23 am

Spoiler:
Do we know for sure it was Luke who stashed her in Jekku? Maybe they all thought she died/was lost in the attack

I wouldn't mind if she wasn't related to anyone but that seems unlikely.

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Re: The Star Wars Saga

Post  ulkis on Wed Dec 23, 2015 1:27 am

Also, the actors who play Rey and Kylo Ren are about 10 years apart, so
Spoiler:
maybe it's the same for the characters too? So going by that Kylo could have been a teenager when he attacked the padawans and Rey doesn't remember cause she was too young/blocked it out

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Re: The Star Wars Saga

Post  The Dude on Wed Dec 23, 2015 10:17 am

Kylo

Spoiler:
Probably became disillusioned when he heard about his father gunning down a Rodian in cold blood and trying to pass off the ludicrous scenario that Greedo shot first.
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Re: The Star Wars Saga

Post  ulkis on Wed Dec 23, 2015 10:42 am

hee.

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Re: The Star Wars Saga

Post  laddical on Wed Dec 23, 2015 3:24 pm

Kylo Ren's twitter is a thing of beauty.
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Re: The Star Wars Saga

Post  Binky on Wed Dec 23, 2015 6:49 pm

I would love for Rey to be
Spoiler:
the child of Han and Leia, but I have difficulty believing that they'd send their child away and not tell her when they randomly find her again. I suppose it might work if, say, she was born right around when Ben went evil. But that looked like a seven-year-old in the flashbacks, so unless everyone's been force-whacked to forget for her protection, the lack of recognition by anyone doesn't make sense. I could buy a force-induced amnesia, mostly because I don't think Leia would send her after Luke if she knew it was her daughter. I think everyone wants her to be a Solo because Han is so much more awesome than Luke. The 9 years between Driver and Ridley are quite obvious, so I doubt they'll be twins.
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Re: The Star Wars Saga

Post  laddical on Wed Dec 23, 2015 6:53 pm

My headcanon is that she's the granddaughter of Obi-Wan Kenobi and Mandalorian Duchess Satine. Because for her to be a Skywalker or a Solo involves, as you said, someone getting mindwiped, and that is not something I can accept Luke doing and still daring to call himself a Jedi.
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Re: The Star Wars Saga

Post  ulkis on Wed Dec 23, 2015 6:54 pm

But if they thought she was dead, then I can buy they
Spoiler:
wouldn't recognize her. And plus if she's Luke's daughter, I also don't buy they wouldn't tell her that either. But i guess it's Star Wars, lots of contrivances

I actually like Luke better than Han, so that's not why I'd prefer
Spoiler:
Rey to be a Solo . . . I just think not everyone needs to procreate and also even though I like Luke, it would be kind of annoying that Luke's kid was fine and Leia and Han's kid was the messed up evil one

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Re: The Star Wars Saga

Post  The Dude on Wed Dec 23, 2015 8:46 pm

I could do without

Spoiler:
another direct connection to the Skywalker bloodline. A galaxy with a Quintilian people and there are only two families left with a midichlorine count high enough to squeeze out Jedi?
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Re: The Star Wars Saga

Post  Red Wolf on Wed Dec 23, 2015 8:57 pm

I think that
Spoiler:
Rey is Luke's daughter. The music that plays when she grabs the lightsbre to fight with Ren is Luke's Theme, later called the Force Theme. But it was Luke's first, when he was staring at the suns of Tatooine. Listen to the soundtrack if you want, the track is called the Ways of the Force. However, I'm not hardcore about it. Just my best guess right now. :)

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Re: The Star Wars Saga

Post  ulkis on Wed Dec 23, 2015 9:30 pm

The Dude wrote:I could do without

Spoiler:
another direct connection to the Skywalker bloodline. A galaxy with a Quintilian people and there are only two families left with a midichlorine count high enough to squeeze out Jedi?

It's midichlorian!! How dare u.

Well, to be fair, there were
Spoiler:
non-Skywalker jedi/force-sensitives, just Kylo Ren killed them all again. And now since Luke is in exile no one is searching out for any new force-sensitives (and Kylo is probably killing any he finds some more). But your point still stands.

Speaking of midichlorians, while I like the prequels (except Phantom Menace), this is really the best way to watch them:


http://www.rifftrax.com/star-wars-episode-i-the-phantom-menace

http://www.rifftrax.com/star-wars-episode-ii-attack-of-the-clones

http://www.rifftrax.com/star-wars-episode-iii-revenge-of-the-sith

It's not a bad way to watch the originals either, to be honest


Last edited by ulkis on Wed Dec 23, 2015 9:34 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: The Star Wars Saga

Post  blixie on Wed Dec 23, 2015 9:33 pm

and that is not something I can accept Luke doing and still daring to call himself a Jedi

Eh it's fine with me, especially in the aftermath of
Spoiler:
a massive fail-tragedy
, but I also think it could have been
Spoiler:
Kylo who dumped her on Jakku/mind wiped her, he saved her from the padawan slaughter. It seemed obvious to me he already knew her and battling his affection for her/draw to the Light.
And I'm holding strong she's a Solo-Skywalker, and that they're siblings, I just don't give a tiny tin fuck about her alternative origins. I'm about as sure of this as I was Bumberbitch was Kahn. All the nods to her being like Luke are still valid because he IS her family, and she's Luke narratively because she is the central hero/protagonist, not because he's her dad. I will die on this hill, or at least my interest in the continuing story will.

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Re: The Star Wars Saga

Post  ulkis on Wed Dec 23, 2015 9:37 pm

Yeah, I don't necessarily think using Luke's theme for her means she's definitely Luke's daughter, although obviously it could be a strong hint as to that.

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Re: The Star Wars Saga

Post  The Dude on Wed Dec 23, 2015 10:41 pm

ulkis wrote:

It's midichlorian!! How dare u.

I use the Bochi spelling.


Speaking of midichlorians, while I like the prequels (except Phantom Menace), this is really the best way to watch them:


http://www.rifftrax.com/star-wars-episode-i-the-phantom-menace

http://www.rifftrax.com/star-wars-episode-ii-attack-of-the-clones

http://www.rifftrax.com/star-wars-episode-iii-revenge-of-the-sith

It's not a bad way to watch the originals either, to be honest

The only way to watch the Holiday Special.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pl6wkHQpzco
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Re: The Star Wars Saga

Post  Red Wolf on Wed Dec 23, 2015 11:34 pm

Blixie, that's fair enough. I'm not 100% devoted to my theory, it's just my interpretation of the evidence presented.

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Re: The Star Wars Saga

Post  bookworm on Fri Dec 25, 2015 8:09 pm

Anyone else think "Keira Knightly?" every time Rey was on screen?
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Re: The Star Wars Saga

Post  ulkis on Fri Dec 25, 2015 10:28 pm

bookworm wrote:Anyone else think "Keira Knightly?" every time Rey was on screen?

I think Kiera Knightly played one of Padme's handmaidens in "Phantom Menace", so it makes sense you thought that. Natalie Portman/Carrie Fisher/Kiera/Daisy all look alike. I actually think this actress looks more like Natalie Portman than Carrie Fisher does.

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Re: The Star Wars Saga

Post  laddical on Fri Dec 25, 2015 11:14 pm

She hates that.
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