Fifty Shades of Grey

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Re: Fifty Shades of Grey

Post  Cutebutpsycho on Wed May 02, 2012 12:25 am

truecrystal wrote:
AND HE DOESN'T WASH HIS OWN BUTT PLUGS?!?!

BDSM: It does not mean what E.L. James thinks it means.

I think I screamed when I saw you type that. How do you have your maid wash your butt plugs? What do you say? "Yes those. Those are used for childproofing a certain electrical socket only found in Outer Mongolia. They need to be cleaned to avoid electrical fire. Stop staring at me like that."


What the hell research did she do into BDSM? It's not hard to find that info online. It's the fucking internet for cripe's sake!
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Re: Fifty Shades of Grey

Post  TatersPrecious on Wed May 02, 2012 11:26 am

truecrystal wrote:So let me get this straight:

Spoiler:
Christian physically brutalizes women who look like his abusive and neglectful mother as a way to deal with his unresolved feelings for her; finds sexual gratification in doing so; the main character is not only turned on by this but eagerly participates; and then he is cured by her magically clean "dark place"?

AND HE DOESN'T WASH HIS OWN BUTT PLUGS?!?!

BDSM: It does not mean what E.L. James thinks it means.

Spoiler:
I don't recall anything being said about who washes the butt plugs. Also I wouldn't say that her being a virgin cures him....more that she's not the typical submissive, and she cares about him enough to try to adapt(even though she can't eventually do all the things he's used to) and he realizes he cares enough about her that his usual stuff doesn't matter. Anyhow it's not a typical BDSM story, which is probably why it's more popular in mainstream, whereas if it was typical BDSM, most people wouldn't be interested. It's still a "love" story, and there isn't an extreme amount of BDSM in it...just a lot of really badly written sex lol. I thought the second book was better than the first(whatever that's worth LOL).

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Re: Fifty Shades of Grey

Post  Jude on Wed May 02, 2012 10:38 pm

Something else: As I recall, Edward/Christian is suddenly declared "cured" by his psychiatrist in that first book after being involved with Bella/Anastasia. Miracle!! Now I'm no mental health professional, but somehow, I'm thinking it doesn't quite happen like that. Just a guess.

There's just so much nonsense in this book that if it weren't for Fifty Shades of Suck, I'd be in a rage right now that this garbage is the talk of the publishing world. Now I know how some people felt about Twilight.

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Re: Fifty Shades of Grey

Post  TatersPrecious on Wed May 02, 2012 10:51 pm

Actually no, he isn't declared cured. She goes to talk to the psychologist with him in the second book, to ask him questions about Christian. The psychologist does say that because she is so important to him, she has triggered a change in Christian, but it's far from a "you're cured!"

If you're going to berate the books, please have your facts straight at least. They're silly books, and guilty pleasures, but I've seen a lot of misinformation tossed around.

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Re: Fifty Shades of Grey

Post  PrincessCleo on Wed May 02, 2012 11:02 pm

Is the safe word "rainbow," or is that the other fic? I would like to say the Everybody Be Cool safe word now. Because if someone has to referee this, it's going to involve a third party reading the books to be sure, and it's probably going to be me, and oh God please no.
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Re: Fifty Shades of Grey

Post  Jude on Wed May 02, 2012 11:18 pm

TatersPrecious wrote:Actually no, he isn't declared cured. She goes to talk to the psychologist with him in the second book, to ask him questions about Christian. The psychologist does say that because she is so important to him, she has triggered a change in Christian, but it's far from a "you're cured!"

If you're going to berate the books, please have your facts straight at least. They're silly books, and guilty pleasures, but I've seen a lot of misinformation tossed around.

I'm sorry. That was the way I recalled it, because I do remember thinking, "Wait...he's cured all of a sudden?" Maybe I misunderstood, maybe I was mistaken. It's been a while since I read the fanfic, and I certainly didn't mean to offend anyone with my observations.

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Re: Fifty Shades of Grey

Post  PrincessCleo on Wed May 02, 2012 11:25 pm

Just be sure to support all future claims with MLA citations, and we can probably bring your grade back up by the end of the semester.
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Re: Fifty Shades of Grey

Post  Jude on Wed May 02, 2012 11:43 pm

Gawd. You mean I don't get an A just for attending class? This knowing stuff is so HARD.

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Re: Fifty Shades of Grey

Post  Unlucky Bear on Wed May 02, 2012 11:50 pm

Oh god, you guys. My brother's girlfriend, my probable future sister-in-law, is messaging me on Facebook asking me if I've read these books. And....I can't. I don't really care for romance novels to begin with and I certainly won't go near this steaming pile. If she's reading it, then I know she'll get my mom to read it, and I don't think I want to live knowing my mother is reading about someone's unwashed butt plugs.
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Re: Fifty Shades of Grey

Post  TatersPrecious on Wed May 02, 2012 11:59 pm

Doesn't matter, she's laughing all the way to the bank, lol.

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Re: Fifty Shades of Grey

Post  Genevieve on Thu May 03, 2012 11:32 am

Jude wrote:Gawd. You mean I don't get an A just for attending class? This knowing stuff is so HARD.

maybe we can extra credit for writing a fic from the perspective of the maid.
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Re: Fifty Shades of Grey

Post  rivki8699 on Thu May 03, 2012 11:47 am

So, apparently there's going to be a parody published, called Fifty Shames of Earl Grey. The premise is:

Unlike Anastasia Steele, the naïve heroine of “Fifty Shades,” his heroine, Anna Steal, is experienced and confident. Her lover, Earl Grey, smells like Coconut Lime Breeze body wash and has sexual proclivities that are shockingly tame. “He’s like, ‘I like to spank girls,’ “ Mr. Shaffer said. “And she’s like: ‘Really? That’s it?’
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Re: Fifty Shades of Grey

Post  lisalars on Thu May 03, 2012 12:21 pm

I remembering reading the fanfic when it was first published online, I don't know if I ever finished it, but it certainly wasn't a great story. Anyway, I got a text from a friend,K, last week asking if I had read this great book "50 Shades of Grey", I tell her that I've read parts of it in it's original form - when it was free and based on characters from Twilight, and that I kind of HATED it. K tells me that another friend has read the trilogy and how G says it's "So Good", blah blah blah...So I tell K I'll give it another try and we can all discuss it.

I'm about 7 chapters in now and I still hate it. So I text the friend, G, who is recommending it to us - basically saying "so I hear you have read 50 Shades..." She tells me that she LOVED it, is reading the trilogy for the second time now and that Christian could be her "favourite leading man ever!" I think I died a little at that. So I ask her what she could possibly like about him and she says that she likes that Ana was able to "change him".

So I guess that's it right there? For her it doesn't matter how stupid Ana is (I mean who signs an NDA without reading it, really? You don't even want to know what the consequences will be if you happen to mention to your BFF that your "boyfriend" has skills in the bedroom, or does it say she's not even allowed to tell anyone she has a "boyfriend"?? Also, what is Christian going to do? Sue the penniless girl with no assets? Or does it stipulate that she gets locked in a dungeon for the rest of her life if she utters his name out loud?) Anyway, it doesn't matter stupid and innocent Ana is (she's never even masturbated in 22 years, as if), and it doesn't matter how much of an overbearing, deluded asshole Christian is, and it doesn't matter that he probably could use some intense therapy to maybe deal with his problems...

All that matters to G (and maybe other women?) is that the "good girl" was able to change the "damaged bad boy". I guess it's not really that different then many romance novels, my reading experience with romance is limited, but I've read a few. This one just seems so much more offensive then anything else I've read. My list of critiques could go on for pages, but I wonder is it even worth it to point them out to friends who love the story, or do I just let them live in fantasyland?

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Re: Fifty Shades of Grey

Post  bookworm on Thu May 03, 2012 1:14 pm

And honestly that's part of the reason why people like Twilight. Bella does "save him" in some ways. I think a lot of these women who love the books are in or have had relationships where they tried to "fix" the person, and it ended up not working, and probably will never work. This book gives them the fantasy that a woman can cure a man of all of his bad qualities and then live happily ever after having endless great sex and a lavish lifestyle. I do wonder if it does do harm in that the book enables them to slip into fantasy instead of realism. Instead of addressing real problems in their own relationships, they are hiding in unobtainable fantasy. Then again most books are like that and I would be lying if I said I never imagined myself as awesome as Eowyn at some point when reading LOTR. A strong narrative can open the reader up to experiences they can never have. You can take anything to extremes.
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Re: Fifty Shades of Grey

Post  inversed on Thu May 03, 2012 10:17 pm

rivki8699 wrote:So, apparently there's going to be a parody published, called Fifty Shames of Earl Grey. The premise is:

Unlike Anastasia Steele, the naïve heroine of “Fifty Shades,” his heroine, Anna Steal, is experienced and confident. Her lover, Earl Grey, smells like Coconut Lime Breeze body wash and has sexual proclivities that are shockingly tame. “He’s like, ‘I like to spank girls,’ “ Mr. Shaffer said. “And she’s like: ‘Really? That’s it?’

The author of this is the partner of a woman in my writer's group. He got a $50k advance. I can't even.

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Re: Fifty Shades of Grey

Post  Miss Moneypenny on Thu May 03, 2012 10:25 pm

inversed wrote:
rivki8699 wrote:So, apparently there's going to be a parody published, called Fifty Shames of Earl Grey. The premise is:

Unlike Anastasia Steele, the naïve heroine of “Fifty Shades,” his heroine, Anna Steal, is experienced and confident. Her lover, Earl Grey, smells like Coconut Lime Breeze body wash and has sexual proclivities that are shockingly tame. “He’s like, ‘I like to spank girls,’ “ Mr. Shaffer said. “And she’s like: ‘Really? That’s it?’

The author of this is the partner of a woman in my writer's group. He got a $50k advance. I can't even.

This is turning into an ouroboros of shitty literature.
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Re: Fifty Shades of Grey

Post  PrincessCleo on Thu May 03, 2012 10:31 pm

Okay, the Coconut Lime Breeze thing made me laugh.

When someone brings vampires back into it, we're all done for.
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Re: Fifty Shades of Grey

Post  Renny Sue on Fri May 04, 2012 9:26 am

"You're a naughty little girl, Anastasia Steele," he said dangerously. "Hold still while I fuck you now."

WHAT IN THE ACTUAL FUCK? That shit got published? People enjoy it? That is a terribly written fanfic. I've read better erotica online. Why are people paying for that tripe?

My question is, why isn't Stephanie Myer suing?

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Re: Fifty Shades of Grey

Post  big chicken on Fri May 04, 2012 10:58 am

I bet she has talked it over with her lawyers and they've decided they don't have grounds to sue or they're afraid of opening up a can of worms. Yes, this started out as a fanfic but James never made money off of that version. The version that's making money has been deSparkled. Also, there are many people who have no idea 50 Shades began life as Twilight fanfic and Meyers, given her religious leanings, may not want to trumpet the fact that her books inspired this erotica.

There's also the possibility that Meyers is planning on suing and her lawyers are just making sure they have everything lined up before filing a lawsuit.

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Re: Fifty Shades of Grey

Post  Cutebutpsycho on Fri May 04, 2012 11:00 am

Renny Sue wrote:
"You're a naughty little girl, Anastasia Steele," he said dangerously. "Hold still while I fuck you now."

WHAT IN THE ACTUAL FUCK? That shit got published? People enjoy it? That is a terribly written fanfic. I've read better erotica online. Why are people paying for that tripe?

My question is, why isn't Stephanie Myer suing?

THAT'S A LINE?

I can't stop laughing. Its something I would say as a joke to my husband.
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Re: Fifty Shades of Grey

Post  laddical on Fri May 04, 2012 11:24 am

No, that line was made up by Crowbridge. The joke was that it's practically indistinguishable from the other excerpts we've seen.
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Re: Fifty Shades of Grey

Post  big chicken on Fri May 04, 2012 11:36 am

This should be a game: Excerpt or Not? People post snippets from the actual books or make them up and the rest of us guess if it's real or made up.

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Re: Fifty Shades of Grey

Post  Gilraen on Fri May 04, 2012 12:34 pm

big chicken wrote:I bet she has talked it over with her lawyers and they've decided they don't have grounds to sue or they're afraid of opening up a can of worms. Yes, this started out as a fanfic but James never made money off of that version. The version that's making money has been deSparkled. Also, there are many people who have no idea 50 Shades began life as Twilight fanfic and Meyers, given her religious leanings, may not want to trumpet the fact that her books inspired this erotica.

There's also the possibility that Meyers is planning on suing and her lawyers are just making sure they have everything lined up before filing a lawsuit.

I bet it's the final exam question in every law school Copyright class in the country though. (When I took it, incidentally, my final exam was on the HP Lexicon lawsuit which was then-pending.)

My uninformed opinion is that it would be a hard case because you'd have to show that either the non-commercial version that has Edward and Bella was infringing or that this commercial version without Edward and Bella is infringing. And either of those is pretty difficult. There's not really a copyright mechanism (that I know of) for combining the infringing aspects of both in a lawsuit.

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Re: Fifty Shades of Grey

Post  bookworm on Fri May 04, 2012 12:36 pm

You could also argue that the work was transformative too, right? I remember back when The Wind Done Gone was published and Margaret Mitchell's estate sued and the book was published anyway.
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Re: Fifty Shades of Grey

Post  Gilraen on Fri May 04, 2012 12:43 pm

bookworm wrote:You could also argue that the work was transformative too, right? I remember back when The Wind Done Gone was published and Margaret Mitchell's estate sued and lost.

Yeah - there are four factors that's go into whether someone is "fair use" for copyright purposes, and both whether or not it's commercial and whether or not it's transformative are factors. In this case, for the novel version of 50 Shades of Grey, since she's just using the general character archetypes and not Edward and Bella specifically, I think it would be hard to show that it's infringing at all. But even using the fan fic version, which is pretty clearly infringing, the fact that it's non-commercial and that it's transformative, weight towards allowing it as fair use. And given that she used a totally different setting and made the characters pretty different (except for the names), it's even more transformative than a lot of fanfic. (Ironically, the things that make for lousy fanfic tend to give you more copyright cover).

The thing about U.S. copyright law is that it's not geared towards protecting the "character" of the work or the author's vision of it (appropriately, IMO, given free speech considerations). So the fact that Stephanie Meyer would likely hate everything about this actually gives James more protection, not less, because it means that 50 Shades of Grey (a) is more transformative than not, and (b) can be read as a critique or commentary on the original work rather than a reiteration of it.

Though again, this is all uninformed rambling based on one law school copyright class; I don't actually work in this area. Experts might view this entirely differently. Also, this is all U.S.-based; Meyers or her UK publishers could have a totally different case under UK law - I'm just not familiar with it.

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Re: Fifty Shades of Grey

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