The Batman Movies

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Re: The Batman Movies

Post  Bob Genghis Khan on Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:29 pm

Well this is just an extra bit of terrible.

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Re: The Batman Movies

Post  Matinee on Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:32 pm

Bob Genghis Khan wrote:Well this is just an extra bit of terrible.

Oh, that's just awful!

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Re: The Batman Movies

Post  laddical on Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:35 pm

"I get why they have the gritty realism and why others like them for that but in the end, I prefer my comic movies more fantastical. I can read the news for psychopaths terrorizing people."

Oddly, this movie is the most fantastical of the three. It moves the character much closer to the world-saving superhero who pals around with the Justice League. There's still some "Nolan realism" there, but not as much. The breadth of stories that this movie draws on was amazing. "Knightfall" and "Son of the Demon" are obvious but even knowing that ahead of time I was amazed at how *much* came from those stories. And then there's also a lot lifted from "No Man's Land" and "The Dark Knight Returns". This is definitely a huge step removed from the street level vigilantism of "Year One", "The Long Halloween", and "The Killing Joke" that the first two drew so much from.
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Re: The Batman Movies

Post  Instant Monkeys on Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:16 pm

Matinee wrote:I quite literally woke up to it this morning when Morning Edition came on my clock radio.
Same here.

It's such a weird, wrenching feeling anyway when some startling reality interrupts a movie you're involved in. Like, you forget the world exists. It's happened to me twice: Once in a showing of Everest at the local IMAX; a fire alarm started going off (with a flashing red light) and it took me a long time to realize the red light wasn't on the mountain but behind the screen. And at Deathly Hallows Part 1, which I actually saw in Denver with friends: a man had a seizure and it took surprisingly long for everyone in the theater to clue in to the medical emergency that was happening, and for someone to turn the lights on and then the movie sound off and finally shut off the movie. Some people were actually bitching about not seeing the ending while this poor person was seizing in the audience. It took a while for the EMTs to get in and get the person out because of the seats. It was scary.

This, of course, is exponentially more awful. I can't imagine feeling that wrench-out-of-the-movie feeling and then the dawning horror of what was actually happening. I've been thinking about it all day. Those poor, poor people.
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Re: The Batman Movies

Post  The Dude on Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:57 pm

Ugh!

I've already heard a local pundit on the radio going off about gun politics. After Columbine and all the rush to judgement there you'd think the local wags would have learned.

The perp allegedly told police he's the Joker and died his hair.
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Re: The Batman Movies

Post  GoodbyeWithWords on Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:35 pm

The shooting is so awful. People suck. Why can't we have nice things? And it's really trivial to think about compared to everything that's happened, but this is only going to add to all the talk of a Batman curse. My thoughts are with the victims and their loved ones but I also feel for Chris Nolan. Can't he release one Batman movie and not have it be overtaken by self-involved stars, dead actors and now this? It's a really trivial concern in the grand scheme of things and it could have happened at the midnight screening of any movie of course...

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Re: The Batman Movies

Post  Gillian on Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:44 pm

I can't stop thinking about how horrible this is. Midnight showings are supposed to be fun. I think going to the movies is always fun (thus, my membership on a pop culture message board), but midnight showings are the most fun because that's where movie enthusiasts get to hang out with other movie enthusiasts. When I go to these things, I love that I'm surrounded by hundreds of people who do stuff like clap for Hobbit trailers and unanimously freak as we all realize that the Man of Steel trailer is using Lord of the Rings music. They're full of kids who are giddy because they're out crazy late watching a cool movie and they'll get to brag to their friends about it later. They're full of friends getting together to geek out over something they've been looking forward to for months. They're full of parents who are eager to share something they love with their children. For something like this to happen at something that's supposed to be just pure, giddy fun? I can't even. It's beyond horrible. 12 people are dead because they were excited to see the new Batman movie. That's just incomprehensible.

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Re: The Batman Movies

Post  QueenSix on Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:55 pm

Well said, Gillian.

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Re: The Batman Movies

Post  laddical on Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:38 pm

Just love the nutters saying that if just one person had been holding a concealed carry that the body count would have been lessened. Because what that auditorium needed was someone else shooting in the middle of the gas and terrified, panicking people.

Goddammit. I just want to talk about the awesome movie I watched.
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Re: The Batman Movies

Post  The Dude on Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:42 pm

I always wonder how they'd tell which one is the psycho and which one is the vigilante.
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Re: The Batman Movies

Post  GoodbyeWithWords on Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:18 pm

Christopher Nolan's statement:

Speaking on behalf of the cast and crew of The Dark Knight Rises, I would like to express our profound sorrow at the senseless tragedy that has befallen the entire Aurora community. I would not presume to know anything about the victims of the shooting but that they were there last night to watch a movie. I believe movies are one of the great American art forms and the shared experience of watching a story unfold on screen is an important and joyful pastime. The movie theatre is my home, and the idea that someone would violate that innocent and hopeful place in such an unbearably savage way is devastating to me. Nothing any of us can say could ever adequately express our feelings for the innocent victims of this appalling crime, but our thoughts are with them and their families.

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Re: The Batman Movies

Post  sagitare on Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:11 am

Excellent post, Gillian.

What amazes me is the sheer amount of military-grade SHIT he had on him, with him, and the craziness that was his rigged apartment. How does that level of planning and activity go unnoticed in terms of his behaviour and actions? I realize hindsight is 20/20 but it's frightening to think he didn't raise enough alarm bells for some serious attention by someone.
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Re: The Batman Movies

Post  The Dude on Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:03 am

Roger Ebert's take

Maybe we need take your quiet neighbor who keeps to himself out to lunch day or something.
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Re: The Batman Movies

Post  Kiran on Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:36 am

Its just senseless and awful. Those poor people.

I did see the movie tonight and I thought it was a perfect finale. I really enjoyed it a lot.
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Re: The Batman Movies

Post  QueenSix on Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:43 am

Kiran wrote:I thought it was a perfect finale. I really enjoyed it a lot.

I really enjoyed it as well. There were some nice moments in there that made it feel like the films had come full circle. Some reviews have mentioned that the film is overlong and drags in places, but I must say that while yes, it is a long film, I thought the length was justified for the story they were telling.

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Re: The Batman Movies

Post  The Dude on Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:00 am

So far as I can tell I don't even know anyone second hand who was a victim.
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Re: The Batman Movies

Post  sen3 on Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:26 am

I thought it was perfect too. I never expected it to tie all the movies together in such a satisfying way. I thought it would be more stand-alone. I loved this way more than TDK.

Whew, Anne Hathaway was great. And she had a Kenzie-from-Lost-Girls type girl side-kick! I don't know why but I loved that little detail.

I thought JGL, Gary Oldman and Michael Caine were just astonishing. I loved the story, but these guys really brought the feels for me.

I was confused by the politics. I mean, was there a political message? Mobs are bad? Us non-rich folks should just be helpful to those in power to get shit done because they are the only ones that can? And we will be rewarded for it?

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Re: The Batman Movies

Post  dreago on Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:20 am

I was confused by the politics. I mean, was there a political message? Mobs are bad? Us non-rich folks should just be helpful to those in power to get shit done because they are the only ones that can? And we will be rewarded for it?

That's the message I got, which really shocked me with its regressiveness. I mean, I LOVED the French Revolution type imagery. And am down with Mobs are Bad, Power Corrupts or something along those lines. But really, the only working class people portrayed as good are cops and priests- people associated with institutions known for supporting the status quo. Of course, I don't have a problem with good cops and good priests, it is just that all the other working class people or people performing working class roles are associated with the League or are cowering appeasers. Really, in the days of Occupy or at least for Gotham where the ultra rich are supposedly super corrupt, I expected to see a little more "lighting my cigar with my 100$ bill" stuff- stuff to explain why people would be feeling negatively about the rich. I felt the movie rushed over why the Dent Act was a bad thing. I guess we should just be grateful that at least one landowner protects his serfs. Even Catwoman falls for Bruce Wayne/Batman's noblesse oblige. I don't expect Nolan to be all like, "workers of the world unite!" and all, but wow, I thought he was surprisingly tone deaf to the general mood of the country.

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Re: The Batman Movies

Post  vwlphb on Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:34 am

And yet, for all that, he's being accused by the (far) right of being in Obama's pocket because the villain is called Bane, clearly chosen to make negative associations in our head with Romney's old company. (I'm not trying to get all political up in here, but seriously, that should be a stupid argument to people on either side of the aisle. He's a freaking established character in the DC Comics canon.)

I was pleasantly surprised by the reveal of
Spoiler:
Marion Cotillard as Talia
because they managed to use my movie expectations against me.
Spoiler:
Once they started calling Bane Ra's al Ghul's son, I figured they just did the typical movie canon switcheroo. I kept being like, "Maybe they're twins!" I don't know why I had such low expectations of them respecting Batman's canon since generally Nolan does a good job. I think it's the result of so many movies changing unnecessary facts for vague plot reasons.

I was wondering, for someone not familiar with the comics how coherent was the story? I think it felt a bit hodge-podge to me, just because they'd have a scene or introduce a new plot string and I'd be like, "Oh, so they're doing a bit of No Man's Land. Oh, they're including Son of the Demon too? Hey, that's Batman Year One." etc. Still enjoyed it, but that may have been part of why the pacing felt off to me.

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Re: The Batman Movies

Post  Kiran on Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:52 am

I thought Selina's sidekick was supposed to be Holly and as a comics fan I loved that.
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Re: The Batman Movies

Post  laddical on Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:15 pm

She's listed in the credits as "Holly" and on imdb as "Holly Robinson" so yes... she was supposed to be Selina's friend from Year One.
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Re: The Batman Movies

Post  sen3 on Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:10 pm

Kiran wrote:I thought Selina's sidekick was supposed to be Holly and as a comics fan I loved that.

OK, good. Glad to know she's part of the original stories. I know nothing of the comics. The only thing I knew going in from the comics was that Bane
Spoiler:
broke Batman's back
.

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Re: The Batman Movies

Post  sagitare on Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:51 pm

I am disappointed - and more than a little taken aback - to say that I really didn't like it at all. I thought it started really slowly which, you know, that's fine. I knew there was a lot of movie still to come so I was more than willing to wait and see what developed. The problem was, what did develop utterly failed to engage me or interest me. The only time I felt a connection with the movie was
Spoiler:
with the reveal of Talia. Now *that* I didn't see coming at all and Marion really sold it. It's a shame she was so underused previously.
That bit was really cool. However,
Spoiler:
the little dalliance between her and Bruce? Really didn't buy it at all, and it felt forced and unnecessary from a story point of view.
Other nice surprises were Anne's Selina Kyle and JGL's Blake. The Selina character looked superfluous in the trailer but I quite liked her in the movie, and I thought Anne was really good and quite believable. Although I laughed at
Spoiler:
the end when she and Bruce take the time to kiss when there's what, 90 seconds left before an atom bomb goes off? Dudes, come on.
As for JGL, I really liked what he did with the role, and I thought the movie was actually far more about his story and evolution than Batman/Bane. I was greatly amused by
Spoiler:
the reaction of the audience to his reveal as Robin. I mean, was this supposed to be a secret? I thought it was obvious who he was when he was cast in the first place.
My problem with the movie is that the big middle bit - when Bane is occupying Gotham - just has no point. I mean, he takes the city and then...well, we don't really learn any more about how this occupation manages to keep going for three months. I kept thinking about the logistics of the operation - how many men does he have? How is he controlling the city and all the uber criminals he let loose? How have these men not turned Gotham into their own little Call of Duty playground? That's my biggest complaint - that whole siege of the city is like a big pause button on the whole movie. We're all just giving Bruce the time to get his shit together and grow strong again so he can come back and save the day. Sure, Bane thought
Spoiler:
he'd taken Bruce out of the game entirely but so what? Now that Bane has Gotham why would he opt to just let the whole thing play out for so long? You just don't get that opportunity to see what's going on in his head or on his side for all that time - I don't know what he's getting out of it as the weeks pass, or how he's managing to keep enough of a lid on things that he doesn't lose control of it all, trigger warning or no.
The
Spoiler:
Revolutionary court set up is pretty wild and crazy, and yet the streets are empty, clean and silent.
Conveniently
Spoiler:
the Commissioner at al are seemingly able to blatantly run around after the truck with the atom bomb on it and not get caught, and get food/supplies to the cops underground for the entire time.

The movie doesn't bother devoting any time to how this whole thing is working, which would have also developed the Bane character more as well (I thought Tom was very menacing and really conveyed an utter brute strength and complete dispassion that was quite frightening. I only wish he had been allowed to do more, quite frankly). So as a viewer I didn't bother getting interested in it either. I found myself thinking that if I was watching this on video I'd just be fast-forwarded through it to get to the bits where something was happening. Besides, it was pretty obvious that this whole bit was just marking time until Batman shows up.
Spoiler:
Of course Bruce heals. Of course he gets out of that underground prison. Of course he manages to get into Gotham even though it's been cut off from everywhere. Of course, of course, of course.
I mean, there's no suspense or surprises there.

The one genuinely funny line was
Spoiler:
"So that's what that feels like" when Selina disappears in the moment Batman turns away from her.
So yeah, just way too much time where nothing seemed to happen, and then when things did happen there was little doubt as to what the outcome was going to be. The movie only kicked in for me at the very end. Otherwise the whole thing was much ado about nothing, and that's unfortunate. It may be that I'll have to watch it in conjunction with the other two, once it comes out on DVD, see the whole story as a whole, and perhaps the space will give me a different view of it, but on its own TDKR really didn't resonate with me at all.
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Re: The Batman Movies

Post  Gillian on Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:10 pm

Overall, I really liked it. I thought The Dark Knight was way better, but this one was easier to watch.

I felt the movie rushed over why the Dent Act was a bad thing.
I don't even get why the Dent Act was a bad thing. Did they try to explain why and I missed it? It put bad guys in prison, and those guys
Spoiler:
wreaked holy hell when they were released, so it didn't seem like a bad thing.
I also wasn't super sure how we were supposed to feel about Harvey Dent at all. That guy spent, like, 85% of The Dark Knight ruling, and that last 15% where he was awful was because his girlfriend got blown up and he got his face burned off and The Joker fucked with his head. And then he died. He was a hero until the last night or two of his life, and then he got put down. Any of his actions that led to the Dent Act would have been motivated by genuine good, right? But then Blake was all,
Spoiler:
You LIED to us and making disappointed faces at Gordon, and instead of agreeing with him I was like, "Boy! You weren't there! Shut your pie hole!" That was the only time I agreed with douchey cop guy that he was kind of a hot head. All the other times they called him a hot head, he was really just, like, making sense and stuff.

I know nothing about the Batman comics. My only exposure to Batman pre-Nolan was seeing Batman Forever as a kid, and all I remember about that movie is the Seal song. I thought it was pretty obvious that
Spoiler:
Marion Cotillard was evil (I had no idea she was Talia, though, because I didn't know Talia existed) simply because she was a new character that everyone just automatically trusted and gave vital information to, and especially because of that completely random scene where they showed us her scar.
Also,
Spoiler:
Blake was totally going to be Robin. Because JGL is young and cute, and because he's an orphan with anger issues, too.

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Re: The Batman Movies

Post  laddical on Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:25 pm

I don't know that the Dent Act *was* a bad thing, or that we were supposed to think it was. The only problem with it was that it was sponsored, passed, and signed into law based on the "legacy" of Harvey Dent. When Bane invoked Dent and the Dent Act as part of his "Occupy Gotham" moment, I don't think Bane cared whether it was moral, ethical, constitutional, or whatever. It was just one more log he could throw on the fire.

You have to go outside the movie, unfortunately, to find out what the Dent Act actually did - it created a special category for crimes committed as part of a "larger criminal enterprise" that called for stiffer penalties and a denial of parole. Which seems sensible on the surface, but the vagueness of "larger criminal enterprise" is questionable and an opening for abuse of the system by overzealous judges and DAs. That really should have been explained more clearly in the movie, I think, but I get the sense that Nolan was relying very heavily on audience familiarity with the first two films to carry the notion of a corrupt ruling class into this one.
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