Elementary

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Re: Elementary

Post  Guest on Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:18 pm

rivki8699 wrote:I'm fairly sure that Sebastian Moran turned up last season (he was "M" the supposed serial killer that Sherlock thought killed Irene).
 See, this is why I need Snarkfest in my life.  No one in my family remembered Moran had appeared before when I mentioned my above theory.

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Re: Elementary

Post  dionneshea on Fri Oct 31, 2014 6:53 pm

I'm very glad that Elementary is back. I don't think I realised how much I missed it until I was actually watching it. I'm also glad that not all is right between Joan and Sherlock and that it wasn't all repaired by the end of the episode.

I did think her new boyfriend was a hitman hired by Gina Gershon. I'm still not convinced that it isn't the case.

I'm not sure what to think about Sherlock's new protege. There's definitely something more there, but I'm not sure what. And I don't know that I like her. I found her kind of annoying.
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Re: Elementary

Post  sagitare on Fri Oct 31, 2014 7:39 pm

I thought it was an excellent episode (I also missed it like crazy - it felt like ages since the S2 finale). While the whole 'creating a rift between the two leads' thing is such a trope, I thought the writers handled it extremely well - the reasons why Sherlock took off were entirely believable. I felt so bad for him during the conversation with Gregson. When Gregson talked so flatly about how they weren't friends, my mouth kind of dropped. I just thought, "Oh shit, that's gonna kill Holmes." JLM played his reaction so beautifully: his face didn't change, his posture didn't change, it seemed like he wasn't reacting at all, yet you could just feel how Gregson's words hit him so hard. What Elementary established so well in the past two seasons was Holmes's gradual understanding that he can learn from the people around him - that he needs to learn from them, in fact - and how he came to truly value the relationships of the core group around him. So to have one of that group just push him away like that was a real blow to him. He came back knowing people would be pissed at him but I don't think he realized until that conversation, that moment, how much damage he'd done when he took off. Just an amazing scene.

Also amazing: his conversation with Joan when he basically told her HE CAME BACK TO NEW YORK BECAUSE IT'S WHERE SHE WAS HANG ON A SECOND I THINK I'VE GOT SOMETHING IN MY EYE. Of course she knew, and he knew she knew. Another great bit there was Holmes's talk of realizing that he's a teacher at heart, with so much to impart and share. You laugh at first because we've seen his social skills as applied to his teaching methods, but in other ways you know he's got a point. I think what I loved about those lines was the idea that, before Joan, he'd never think of himself that way because he never saw anyone else as being remotely worthy of learning from him. It's a testament to how far he's come socially that he not only believes there are at least a few people other there who can learn from him but also that he can form a relationship with someone in order to do that.

Also also amazing: how badass Joan was in the beginning, being her own consulting detective and getting shit done!

I was wary of the introduction of Kitty but was pleasantly surprised at how well I reacted to her. I think part of that was the writers didn't go for the catfight angle between her and Joan. That final bit where they're talking outside the brownstone was really nice. I imagine there will be conflicts, of course, but there's also the refreshing possibility of a working relationship there at some point down the road, I think. I don't know what the long plan is for that character but for me it's started off much better than I thought.
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Re: Elementary

Post  Corvus on Sat Nov 01, 2014 1:18 pm

'creating a rift between the two leads' thing is such a trope,
Because the writers actually subverted the trope, didn't they? Instead of the typical 'Insufferable Genius* everyone has to put up with because he (always a he) (and white) is always always right and no one else is ever (see House, Gregory; Doctor, The) the show had every single other character call Sherlock on his shit. Full stop. And he heard them. (He didn't have a clue what to do about it, and hoped it would just go away, but still.)

Kitty: Must we? I'm Clara'd out. The 'Constantine' people rewrote their entire show to course correct for their Zooey Daschenel mistake. On the other hand, the conversation with Joan and Kitty scored some Bechtel points, so yay.

her new boyfriend was a hitman hired by Gina Gershon
Mycroft.

*Be warned: link to the Great Black Hole of the Internet. But it's the weekend.
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Re: Elementary

Post  biakbiak on Sat Nov 01, 2014 3:21 pm

Liking the new dynamic between Sherlock and Watson, not liking Kitty. Pure speculation on my part but I am wondering if Kitty is somehow related to either Sherlock by way of Mycroft or is related to Moriarty.
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Re: Elementary

Post  MichiSichi on Thu Nov 20, 2014 5:40 am

I hope kitty doesn't stay long , not liking her at all and I also get a Moriarty vibe from her.
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Re: Elementary

Post  Mulva on Sun Feb 08, 2015 12:59 pm

I quit watching because of Kitty. She rubbed me the wrong way in her first scene, and then I tuned in to see her being very rude to Bell. I changed the channel and haven't watched since. Anyone know what the ratings have been since she showed up?

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Re: Elementary

Post  MichiSichi on Sun Feb 08, 2015 1:26 pm

Kitty gets better along the way and I can recommend you watch as things do change (don't want to spoil in case you do watch)
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Re: Elementary

Post  sagitare on Sun Feb 08, 2015 2:22 pm

The Kitty story line ends up being one of the strongest things they've done so far this season. So many viewers, myself included, were dreading what was going to happen when she was introduced but I've been reading a lot of comments and reactions to her arc that are all about how much people ended up loving not just her character but how she was integrated with Sherlock and Joan, as well as how individual relationships were established between her and Sherlock, and her and Joan.

For me, I got really into Kitty's story - and the way her trauma and experience were treated by the writers was truly exceptional, I have to say - and I loved how the character was used so well to shine a light on Sherlock and Joan's relationship. Those characters started to look at each other in new ways because of Kitty, and overall the writers were able to create a wonderful unit (and friendship) between the three of them. You do feel that, now Kitty's arc has been wrapped up, that Sherlock and Joan are on a different footing (a good one) and that some things between them have been re-evaluated and subsequently worked out. They just feel like they're on solid ground with each other again, after having to navigate the shifts in their relationship revealed and created when Sherlock took off for London.

So yeah, I thought I'd hate Kitty and ended up liking her a lot. Ophelia Lovibond did a terrific job, too. I'd say give it another go because the whole thing does go in a direction you're not expecting, and the arc is treated with a lot of careful thought and sensitivity on the part of the writers. This is a really good article that sums all this up very well (spoilers for how it all ends, of course)
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Re: Elementary

Post  mrinsouciance on Sun Feb 08, 2015 4:09 pm

I would second virtually everything Sagitare just said. Started out not liking her and the storyline, and ended up completely on the other side of the fence.

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Re: Elementary

Post  Cynara on Sun Feb 08, 2015 5:27 pm

I am consistently impressed with this show. I think I went in with exceedingly low expectations because I was not expecting the genre mashup of network procedural/mystery/together-they-fight-crime + umpteenth Sherlock interpretation to go over particularly well. But it does. It has two consistently written complex, three-dimensional main characters whose friendship changes both of them and is constantly evolving, and then they added a third and didn't drop the ball. Hell, Game of Thrones can't manage that on a consistent basis. It also helps (to me) that Jonny Lee Miller's performance is very understated and balanced, considering the character--yeah, there are moments when Sherlock goes full-out OMG BRILIIANCE FOLLOW IN MY WAKE PLEBES, but there are many scenes where he's contemplative and even self-reflective about his addiction and how he relates to other people.

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Re: Elementary

Post  biakbiak on Sun Feb 08, 2015 8:52 pm

Chiming in as another person who didn't like Kitty (as you can see from this very thread) and came to love her. I was trying to think of when it happened so you could just start there (maybe when she and Joan start having a friendship independent of Sherlock) but I think it's a slow build but probably by her third episode because I think she was rude to Bell in her second.
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Re: Elementary

Post  Corvus on Sun Feb 08, 2015 9:37 pm

I'm not sure I can say I ever 'liked' her, even up to the end, but I don't much like Sherlock either. Most of the time. I did think she was a bit precious most of the time, and there was a couple of seriously mawkish moments at the end, but in the main I was surprised at how unforced and smartly the story line was done. Also credit the measured interactions with Joan, Bell, Gregson. Felt organic, not forced.

Just saw the latest episode. What a great batch of guest players!
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Re: Elementary

Post  Tabby on Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:50 am

I thought they did a good job with Kitty's storyline, too. And the revenge against Gruner was an excellent reference to Sherlock canon.
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Re: Elementary

Post  bookworm on Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:22 pm

I was pleasantly surprised by Kitty as a character during the season. She felt like a necessary step in Sherlock's evolution as a person, and not as a plot device.
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Re: Elementary

Post  Coneycat on Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:42 pm

bookworm wrote:I was pleasantly surprised by Kitty as a character during the season.  She felt like a necessary step in Sherlock's evolution as a person, and not as a plot device.  

Yes, I agree. I ended up finding Kitty an interesting and sympathetic character in her own right, but her presence both influenced Sherlock's growth as a person and altered the balance between himself and Joan into something that feels more equal. I was really impressed with the choices the show made. (I was one of the people who was initially very dubious about this show, but it quickly became one of my favourites and is still going strong.)

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Re: Elementary

Post  bookworm on Mon May 18, 2015 12:35 pm

So what did y'all think of the finale? I was wondering when Sherlock's relapse was going to happen, but I was a little disappointed at the person who caused it. Michael Weston's character has become his Moriarty in a way, and only Irene has that much power of Sherlock! Boo.
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Re: Elementary

Post  MichiSichi on Mon May 18, 2015 12:41 pm

I understand how and why but I did not want him to relapse, makes me sad
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Re: Elementary

Post  Corvus on Mon May 18, 2015 3:03 pm

I didn't, quite. I get the pressure of the set up, and (intellectually) the struggle Sherlock faces daily, but did /not/ get over the finish line as to what happened between his picking up the kit and Joan talking to him on the roof. He didn't fail, Oscar's sister was already dead, Alfredo was saved. He's faced this situation (easy access to narcotics) before. What made this time different? I suppose this plot device line was inevitable, I suppose they will spend several episodes explaining it all. Weston and Miller were equally terrific, of course but Oscar and Sherlock aren't exactly in the same league. 'Sherlock is his own worst enemy?' I guess I would have liked something more evitable.
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Re: Elementary

Post  Snarker on Wed Jun 03, 2015 2:50 pm

I quit watching when Kitty showed up. Has she left yet?

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Re: Elementary

Post  bookworm on Wed Jun 03, 2015 3:59 pm

Yes, and I recommend watching her episodes. It ended up being a compelling storyline in the end.
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Re: Elementary

Post  RiverThames on Wed Jun 03, 2015 4:30 pm

Snarker wrote:I quit watching when Kitty showed up.  Has she left yet?

She left, but she was awesome. You did yourself a disservice.
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Re: Elementary

Post  QueenSix on Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:03 pm

As Kitty's storyline progressed, she went from being merely Joan's replacement to something else entirely. I found myself very invested in her by the end.

In other news: we can put a face to Sherlock's Dad.

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Re: Elementary

Post  dionneshea on Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:14 pm

QueenSix wrote:As Kitty's storyline progressed, she went from being merely Joan's replacement to something else entirely. I found myself very invested in her by the end.

In other news: we can put a face to Sherlock's Dad.
I wasn't digging Kitty at the beginning of her storyline, but by the end of it I was hooked and ADORED her.

I don't know what to think of that casting. I'm oddly disappointed. Oddly, because I love the actor, but I guess I had someone else in mind. But I'm not even sure who I had in mind. Just not him.
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Re: Elementary

Post  bookworm on Wed Jun 03, 2015 8:29 pm

QueenSix wrote:As Kitty's storyline progressed, she went from being merely Joan's replacement to something else entirely. I found myself very invested in her by the end.

In other news: we can put a face to Sherlock's Dad.

Honestly I pictured someone like Alan Dale. Urbane and cold.

Yeah Kitty annoyed me the first few episodes because I thought they were going to try and make up this big rivalry between Joan and Kitty, but they pretty quickly put that story line out of mind and went for Kitty and Joan being friends, which was really good. I liked the comparison between how Sherlock mentors and how Joan mentors.

In conclusion, you really should watch those episodes. They could have been trite, but weren't.
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Re: Elementary

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