Arrow

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Re: Arrow

Post  laddical on Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:40 am

Holy crap there was a new episode tonight?!?! I thought Barry being taken to the Arrowcave was the mid-season cliffhanger. And here I am watching Doctor Who reruns like a schmuck.

(Just kidding. Doctor Who reruns - AWESOME. I'll get to Arrow later.)
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Re: Arrow

Post  Carrie Ann on Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:04 pm

I liked Barry even more this episode, and now I'm even more excited that we're (hopefully) going to have two shows from this same group. I trust them to make good choices with The Flash.

Um, this whole episode was great. I feel like a broken record. I was legitimately shocked by Roy getting the Mirakuru--I thought that maybe Blood hadn't pushed the plunger down when Oliver swooped in. But then the bloody eyes. Something kind of strange is that I don't particularly like Sin (the actress is a little affected for my taste), but I really appreciate her presence on the show because I like all three of those characters better when they're together.

I was also surprised at how quickly Ivo dispatched with Shado. I thought that somehow would get dragged out over at least this episode. (I found that character one-note and bland, so I'm not sad to be mostly rid of her.)
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Re: Arrow

Post  RiverThames on Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:34 pm

I'll admit, Sin comes close to "This is my classically trained interpretation of 'street'."

I get you on the broken record. I constantly feel like I'm gushing. I'm just ridiculously happy that, for once, a show based on a comics property treats the full scope of the world it comes from as a vital source instead of an ungainly albatross. (Agents of SHIELD, I'm giving you the side-eye here.)

Admittedly, even though Smallville eventually gave a full-on battle between Hawkman and Deathstroke, it was kind of too-little, too-late. It still held onto its "no tights, no flights" rule, which was always, essence, "Hey, don't worry, we won't be doing any stupid comic book stuff with our Superman show." That veneer of shame always hung over everything Smallville did. This show, man, this show... it embraces everything with ZERO shame.
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Re: Arrow

Post  laddical on Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:45 pm

I don't know if I blame the producers for Agents of SHIELD not being as comic booky as we'd like it. I have a feeling it was originally sold to Whedon and company as a playground to introduce the lower-tier heroes to see which ones might gain traction... and then Disney went and sold most of the interesting heroes we'd want to see on that show to Netflix.
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Re: Arrow

Post  Carrie Ann on Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:22 pm

You know, I tried with Smallville a few times, but could never get into it. The shame you talk about with the "no flights, no tights;" I had actually forgotten about that, and it seems extra ridiculous now that we're in this comic book movie era. I like to see new and different interpretations of source material, so it's not like I would have wanted Smallville to be like Donner-Superman, Junior. But who would have been mad to see the tights? And why on Earth would you not want Superman to fly???? I know Smallville and Arrow share characters, and a comics universe, but I'm glad this show is going in such a different direction.

Anyway, the Arrow team is doing a great job keeping the show grounded in its own universe. Like, I don't love it when shows just solve story problems by creating superpowers or supertechnology when it doesn't make sense in-universe. But here, they dole out a little at a time, and hint at other things coming, so that when they arrive, it doesn't make you roll your eyes. It's believable and exciting. GUSH GUSH GUSH.

And while we're on the subject of new interpretations of source material: I still see some fans complain that so much time is spent on Team Arrow, when they're not canon. Oh, how I don't care about canon. Especially when so many different writers have done so many different takes on the same characters, and each time they make their own tweaks, add new characters, etc. This is just the television version of that. Team Arrow makes this show work, for me. The Diggle/Oliver relationship was the only one I cared about for most of the first season, and then Felicity completed that picture. I still care most about them, but that hook kept me around long enough to care about the other characters and relationships too.
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Re: Arrow

Post  laddical on Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:28 pm

Diggle's canon now. If Diggle, Chloe Sullivan, Harley Quinn, Mercy Graves, Phil Coulson, and a bunch of other non-comics characters that wound up in the comics are any indication, then Felicity Smoak's due any month now.

Hell, half the Superman support crew were created for the old radio serial. As was Kryptonite.
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Re: Arrow

Post  truecrystal on Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:42 pm

Yeah, I don't care about canon either. Especially if it means we get characters like Diggle, Felicity and Moira -- there's not nearly enough love for Moira!--who serve the story but are fully-realized characters on their own.

There's only so much gushing that can be done (and I won't even get into the Smallville stuff because I watched it 'til the oh-so-bitter end) so I'll just say this is still my favorite show on tv right now and I was thrilled with the episode. And while I wouldn't call myself an Olicity shipper quite yet, I can certainly understand it. Felicity took a while to grow on me, but now I adore her. I think I've been so burned out with the Joss Whedon version of geek girl --smart, somewhat socially awkward, ridiculously unaware of her own sex appeal, emotionally immature and sometimes prone to baby talk--that I was casting Felicity in the same light without giving her a chance. But now I love how she's a pretty, smart, sexy and realistically confident woman who can be a bit goofy but not to the point of making me wonder how she's able to function in life.

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Re: Arrow

Post  nazlan on Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:01 pm

Felicity's already canon. Though the TV version doesn't bear much resemblance to the comic. They basically just borrowed the name and 'does computer things'.
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Re: Arrow

Post  xyzzy on Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:48 pm

I'm still really enjoying this show, but I am a teensy bit annoyed at Felicity's unrequited affections for Oliver. Oliver's pretty promiscuous--I think he's had a sexual relationship with every major female character in the show, save for his mother and sister. While it's obvious that Oliver really cares about Felicity, you can see that he's got her firmly in the friend zone for now. That's fine; I want Oliver to have female friends that he hasn't had sex with. What bothers me is that the one female character he hasn't slept with has a crush on him, and that character also happens to be the "geek" girl. Granted, she's very attractive and the show doesn't really try to make her fake-ugly to suit her geek status, BUT she's decidedly un-sexy when compared to Lauren, her sister, or even Summer Glau. I want the crush to go away sooner rather than later.
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Re: Arrow

Post  RiverThames on Fri Dec 13, 2013 2:43 pm

The thing that kind of astounds me is how much the guy at ComicsAlliance HATES the show. I'm honestly just plain dumbfounded by it.
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Re: Arrow

Post  TiffanyNichelle on Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:17 pm

Arrow is turning out to be everything I wish Smallville could have been.
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Re: Arrow

Post  laddical on Fri Dec 13, 2013 6:32 pm

More and more, I feel like the guys at ComicsAlliance are just real-life Comic Book Guys.

ETA: I hadn't realized Felicity's name was "stolen" from the comics. Now I kind of hope we get Firestorm in the show. Always felt like he was an undervalued Superfriend.
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Re: Arrow

Post  RiverThames on Sat Dec 14, 2013 1:28 am

I think it's completely conceivable that Prof. Stein was one of the people involved in the particle accelerator disaster, and Ronnie Raymond the decent-hearted student who ran back in to help him....

Or Jason Rusch. We can do either one.
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Re: Arrow

Post  RiverThames on Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:13 am

Broken record time, because:

AH THIS SHOW.

"When do we start?"
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Re: Arrow

Post  Carrie Ann on Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:56 pm

The last ten minutes of this were really packed with goodness. Deathstroke in full costume, slicing dudes up! Actually, the whole episode was great--special shout-out to Paul Blackthorne who I thought was especially excellent, and Katie Cassidy did better with this desperate stuff than she does with the boring, righteous stuff. The Roy/Sin/Thea piece was much more interesting to me than usual, and I continue to be pleased that Sin and Thea just liked each other right away and there is no competitiveness between them at all. I like all three of those characters better together.
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Re: Arrow

Post  truecrystal on Thu Jan 23, 2014 10:16 pm

I laughed for a good 10 minutes at "What. Color. Are. Your. Shoes?"

I don't know much about the comics, but I assume Kevin Alejandro's days are numbered. It's a shame because I love him as Sebastian Blood. LOVE.

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Re: Arrow

Post  laddical on Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:50 am

I'd noted that Roy's sweatshirt was red a while back. But until the preview for next week's episode it never quite sank in that it's a red *hoodie*.

I like the design of Deathstroke's outfit - it's classic without being silly, contemporary without being "rubber muscle suit". But I do wonder why he got all dolled up *just* to kill some lackeys. And appearing in Blood's office without a disguise? Bold move, but I'd consider it unnecessarily risky.
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Re: Arrow

Post  RiverThames on Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:45 am

I'm still not convinced by this particular iteration of Amanda Waller (one area where Smallville actually got it better with Pam Greir), but, "Actually, it's more of a squad..." was just beautiful.

This show has made be a stupid gushing fanboy. It's quite pathetic.
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Re: Arrow

Post  laddical on Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:51 am

I think that's exactly what she says to Deathstroke in the coda to "Batman: Arkham Origins". Can't tell if I'm amused or annoyed by that.
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Re: Arrow

Post  nazlan on Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:55 am

Arrow's Amanda Waller sits the uncomfortable intersection of the CW's young and pretty mandate and DC editorial's New 52 "no fat chicks" policy. (The Wall's not the only one who got an unnecessary makeover in the books - Etta Candy's not looking much like herself these days either)

At the rate Ollie's going with folks finding out about his secret identity, pretty soon Thea and his mom will be the only people in all of Starling City who DON'T know. I'm also intrigued by the possibilities of his mother running for mayor; seems rife with drama, and is an interesting tip of the hat to Ollie's own stint as mayor in the comics.
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Re: Arrow

Post  laddical on Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:59 am

I hadn't intended this to be an essay when I started writing it in my Facebook status update. But it did, so I feel like it might be worth posting here as well.

I love "Arrow". I think I've said as much frequently. And I like all the characters in their roles to one degree or another. Even Roy, even if he is played by Poor Man's Channing Tatum.

But while I feel I should get excited about Ollie taking Roy under his wing and giving us his first real "sidekick", all I can really think about is Diggle. For the first season, he had a pretty compelling arc related to his brother's murder and his budding relationship with his widowed sister-in-law. And yes, this season he got an episode where he went into a Russian hoosegow to team up with Deadshot to save his ex-wife's life but... for the most part, he's been relegated to the bench. Maybe not even that. He hasn't contributed anything substantive to the plot in a long time. All the "paperwork" stuff for "Team Arrow" is handled by Felicity. All Digs does now is stand around and give Ollie semi-judgmental looks. And all so that some white not-quite-a-teen-heartthrob can pick up the slack as Ollie's in-the-field partner.

This show started out fairly diverse in its casting. There were three recurring black characters - Digs, Joanna, and Quentin Lance's detective partner. Joanna left mid-season one, and the "female black character" slot was picked up by Diggle's sister-in-law for the remainder of the season. But she got put on a bus during the summer hiatus. And a few weeks ago, Lance's partner got killed. That leaves Diggle, standing around with his thumb up his ass most of the time.

And none of that is even dealing with the Island Flashbacks and the killing off of the show's only two recurring Asian characters.

So I want to be excited about Roy Harper beginning his turn into Speedy/Arsenal. But as it appears to be coming at the expense of the only remaining non-white non-villain character, that's hard to do.
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Re: Arrow

Post  Carrie Ann on Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:28 pm

I've been thinking a lot about Diggle too, and definitely last night. It is the only bummer of an otherwise great season, and great episode. I do hope the show has some long-term plans as to how Diggle will be included, and differentiated, in the future. Because right now it looks like Roy makes more sense as a field partner, and Felicity makes more sense on comms from the lair.
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Re: Arrow

Post  TiffanyNichelle on Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:50 pm

I agree, Diggle has been given the shaft this season. (Of course if you believe half of TWoP it's all Felicity's fault *rme*). I wanted more Diggle. I really liked his bond with Ollie in season 1 and I thought after Diggle found out ARGUS knew who the Arrow was there would be more stuff there.

Also, I just don't like Roy. I feel like he's falling ass-backward into all of this. Last season they set up Thea investigating the arrowhead Ollie gave her and there were times where you felt like they were hinting that she was figuring out that Ollie was the Arrow but then they dropped that so they could bring in a cute boy to be her boyfriend and take over that search. Now he's got these superpowers and after not really proving himself, Ollie not only tells him his secret identity, he takes him down to the secret lair?? Not even Lance has gotten to know about the lair and I'm so sure he knows it's Ollie.
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Re: Arrow

Post  laddical on Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:15 pm

I feel like I'm harshing everyone's buzz, but after I wrote my essay above, it occurred to me that I'm also having a problem with the politics on this show, particularly after last night's episode. Hopefully this is more of a case of "I'm just not feeling very good in general and it's coloring my experience", which happens a lot when my depression outpaces my anti-depressants. It could be that things will shift as the plots unwind through the rest of the season.

But right now, I have a problem. Sebastian Blood is a murdering psychopath in thrall to an amoral "anti-Batman". But his public face is that of a left-leaning "man of the people", challenging the classism of Starling City as he runs for mayor. Like Bane in The Dark Knight Rises, all of his pro-poor people rhetoric is merely a mask for his desire to bring the city down around him.

Which is a problem for me because it seems to imply that anyone who wants to help the disadvantaged or who challenges income inequality is just looking for a way to leverage the disadvantaged to their personal benefit. I could dismiss this as "just part of Blood's cover story"... except for tonight, where the alternative to Sebastian Blood put forth is Moira Queen.

I don't care for Moira. I think she got away with murder. I understand wanting to protect you and yours - I get that it's a powerful instinct. But the fact is, she sacrificed 500 poor people living in the city slum to protect her own skin and that of her two wealthy, privileged children. And I also understand that the "not guilty" verdict was a matter of jury tampering on the part of Malcolm Merlyn - but that seems incidental to me given that the show itself, particularly through the character of Ollie, sees this "not guilty" as a good thing.

And this is the person the show sees as a suitable alternative to Sebastian Blood in the public, political arena?

Like I said... I'm not feeling well lately, and it makes me more cynical than usual. But basically, last night's episode left a sour taste on two fronts, which is a bit of a come down after the awesomeness of seeing Deathstroke in full, live-action armor.
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Re: Arrow

Post  Carrie Ann on Thu Jan 30, 2014 5:40 pm

OK, to make you feel better (maybe!) on that particular point: the show spent a whole season having Oliver primarily taking down the Evil 1%, while they schemed to kill the poverty-stricken citizens of Starling. I think Oliver is still sort of a Robin Hood figure, no matter his protestations. And I think Moira is going back into the "morally questionable" pile after her insinuation that they'd need to shut that OB up by whatever means necessary. If she did win this election and end up as mayor, I don't expect her to be a heroic figure.

I'm going to choose to see the treatment of Diggle this way: this just isn't his season. I hope the HIVE thing comes back and they do something more with him this year, but this is not going to be a big Diggle season. That's OK, as long as he does get more focus in future seasons. And a clearer role.* As far as Felicity: I love her, desperately, but they did a lot with her in the first half of the season, and now it's time to back off that a bit. The producers have said that they initially planned to go into her background a bit more this season, but later decided to push that back for awhile. That's great, because I don't want people (other than Lauriver fans, who are going to hate her no matter what) to get sick of her and I don't want the other characters sacrificed for her. It's a stronger show and a stronger story if everyone gets time and focus.

*This is something I think about a lot for him and for Felicity. Once Isabel's out of the way and Oliver's running the company by himself (hahahhaha) or with Walter (yes please), I want Felicity and Diggle to get better jobs within QC. I think if QC actually had relevance to the plot, it would be more interesting, and one way to do that is to have Oliver start using it to fight bad guys in the boardroom. Felicity and Dig could help with that too.
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Re: Arrow

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