Arrow

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Re: Arrow

Post  Kiran on Thu May 15, 2014 12:44 pm

Unpopular opinion? Laurel has really grown on me the last half of the season. Part of that may be because I really WANT to like her. She is my favorite character in DC comics history. I just want her to be great.

I also really enjoy Olicity, and was excited about that too.
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Re: Arrow

Post  RiverThames on Thu May 15, 2014 12:45 pm

TiffanyNichelle wrote:Felicity asking how Ollie learned to fly a plane and leading into season three answering a whole bunch of questions I've had for a while now. Like how did Ollie and Amanda know each other so well or Ollie's comment in this episode about Slade knowing how Amanda thinks. Or like how did Anatoli teach Ollie all that Russian and where Ollie got his tattoo.

Or how there's a SECRET ARGUS PRISON on the island. Had they been there the whole time, like the Hatch on LOST, or did they build it around the same time as Ollie's Hong Kong adventures next year?
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Re: Arrow

Post  jensa on Thu May 15, 2014 12:49 pm

Oh my goodness, did I ever believe the I Love You scene. I may have even squealed. And then was sad when I realized what was going on. :( Such a great finale. And Barrowman! And everyone got to be awesome! Hee!!! So excited for the next season!
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Re: Arrow

Post  xyzzy on Thu May 15, 2014 12:57 pm

I thought the finale was a bit melodramatic, and not in a good way. I mean, I love me some ANGST! and PAINFUL!FEELINGS!, but I don't feel as invested in some of the characters on this show as I have in other genre shows in the past. I wasn't Kermit-flailing over Olicity because I never liked the pairing in the first place. I just want Oliver to have one female in his life that he hasn't dipped into *and* doesn't want to be dipped into. They almost ruined Felicity for me because of this silly crush she has. The beach moment at the end was seriously painful to watch, because Felicity was just.. so embarrassingly needy.

Thea's character arc is.. very confusing. She can't trust anyone, so she'll figure shit out by going to the one person she hates the most to learn how to "be strong."
Spoiler:
And possibly learn how to be Cheshire? I mean, she's not Asian, but Cheshire had daddy issues and gave birth to Arsenal/Speedy's spawn.

I continue to hate Laurel. Her drugging, drinking, and whinging was not made up for by a throwaway line about hitting a meeting and a couple of heart-to-hearts with Oliver/Sarah. I mean, Sarah has been through some *shit*, yo, and manages not to be oblivious or selfish most of the time. Laurel's "shit" consists of a "dead" boyfriend come back to life, a "dead" sister come back to life, and another "dead" boyfriend she was in the process of leaving behind. Sarah's roadmap of scars alone adds up to more pain than anything I've seen Laurel endure or overcome, not to mention her experiences on the ship, the island, with the LoA, etc. Having Laurel get her job back by being a ruthless, blackmail-y bitch did not endear me to her one iota. Right now, she doesn't deserve to apply leather cream to Black Canary's jacket, much less wear it with jeans and some fresh boots.

Speaking of that scene.. what's with the weird send-off? Laurel and her dad kinda acted like it was no big deal to say goodbye as Sarah was heading off to be with a chick who kidnapped her mother, poisoned her sister, and openly kills people. It was strangely lighthearted. You know, until Daddy started spitting up blood.

However, I do have fun watching this show. I just want the writers to be a bit smarter. They've done some pretty strong work, so I know they can do better.
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Re: Arrow

Post  TiffanyNichelle on Thu May 15, 2014 1:21 pm

Forgot to add that I was so sure that they were going to kill off Sara. I spent the whole episode freaking out that this or that other person was going to die. Did not see Det. Lance collapsing like that after everything was over. He better not die!

I liked Laurel in season one but by a few episodes into season two I was over her.
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Re: Arrow

Post  Carrie Ann on Thu May 15, 2014 1:37 pm

Oh, I was absolutely convinced Roy was a goner when he gave that "I love you and we are leaving and never coming back, but FIRST, I just need to do this one little thing" speech to Thea. So glad everyone lived.
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Re: Arrow

Post  RiverThames on Thu May 15, 2014 9:14 pm

So, now we’ve seen two seasons of Arrow, and the trailer for The Flash, and it seems like the CW is on the verge of doing on the small screen what’s eluded DC on the large screen: building a fully functional, living, breathing live-action DC Universe. Most intriguing about it is it does this by explicitly creating and Elseworlds that removes the “DC Trinity” from the picture, and puts DC’s second string in the same roles.

First, with no Batman, we have Green Arrow, and as the hyper-trained street-level fight-in-the-shadows type. I’m incredibly pleased with how Arrow has evolved Ollie over the course of the two seasons. If the first season was, for all intents, Green Arrow Begins, then the second season was The Emerald Archer. The underlying theme of the first season was about Ollie figuring out he could be more than just an instrument of vengeance, and the second was figuring out how to become that. What was most appealing, at least to me, was how what seemed like an early reticence to embrace the comic book elements was merely using time to build up to it. By the end of the second season, we have seen several villains straight from the comics, in some form of costume that merges comic-book and real-world elements.

The second season also brought us Sarah Lance, this world’s version of Black Canary, and Barry Allen, the Flash, who in many ways fulfill the roles of Wonder Woman and Superman. Sarah, the female warrior trained in an almost mystical place, and Barry, becoming the brightly colored, day lit hero with incredible powers. And I like the idea of Barry and Ollie having the kind of friendship as a core to a “league” that might form.

It seems they are using the particle accelerator meltdown seen in “Three Ghosts” as not only the source of Barry’s powers, but as the flashpoint (sorry) for meta-level powers in the world. They’ve already had some inclusion, between the Mirakuru which was a crucial plot element of the back-half of Season Two and the Dr. Light gizmo. But I like how Arrow started in a grounded world, but then pushed the door open a crack during the second season, and now Flash kicks the door off completely.

What else can they open up to? The super-science that allows Barry to be the Flash could give us Ray Palmer as the Atom. Cisco Ramon, aka Vibe is already a character there. Firestorm could easily be added as an affect of the meltdown. Arrow has shown Kord Industries, so Ted Kord and Blue Beetle could be a part of things. Arrow also told us Namda Parbat exists, which gives several possibilities, including The Question. But it also opens the door for other places— like Atlantis and Aquaman? Are they willing to open the door to magic— give us Dr. Fate or Zatanna? Or aliens— give us Green Lantern (they DID show Ferris airbase) or Martian Manhunter? Could we get some iteration of Hawkman?

This is a VERY longwinded way to say I AM EXCITED.
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Re: Arrow

Post  Raksha on Fri May 16, 2014 12:21 am

Carrie Ann wrote:
Raksha wrote:I may have flailed like Kermit during the "I love you. Do you understand?" scene. But my joy only lasted a few moments, as I knew TPTB were just too evil to let me have this. And alas. But seriously, you two, you're not fooling anyone.
I sat with both arms in the air until the commercial break, when I made my husband high-five me eight times in a row. And then I immediately realized what was really going on, and got sad. But still! Even if he hasn't allowed himself to think about it yet, there was clearly some truth there because we've never seen Oliver to be that great an actor. I do think it was a risky move because Felicity could have easily bought it and started rambling her actual real feelings, and that would have been really shitty for her. But, um, who knows? Maybe Oliver was looking at it as a win-win. If she didn't, then they get to go on as they have; if she did, then you know, yay.

Oh yeah, it's established canon that Ollie is a shit liar. Just terrible at it. And he was not lying during That Scene. I think you're right that he hadn't allowed himself to think it yet, but there's no running from it now. I'm actually okay with that. Oliver is pretty fucked up, emotionally, so things like this are hard for him and he has unresolved feelings for other women that he needs to deal with first. I'm glad he's are not rushing into anything with Felicity, because she's too important for that. Too important to him and his mission, and to the show as a whole! I also appreciated his faith in her. He knew she'd figure out what he was doing and he trusted her to actually stop Slade. That's huge.

TiffanyNichelle wrote:Loved Thea shooting Malcolm. Any other show would have had her shoot at a guy behind him so that was cool. I actually like her going off with Malcolm at the end. She needs to get it together. I liked her character in season one but she's been floundering lately.

I loved that! Laughed my ass off. I'm looking forward to her new dark turn next season.


Also, about Laurel: I liked her in the first season (or maybe I really wanted to like her? I don't know), but second season I was just so done with her. Her addiction storyline was interesting at first, but she got so whiny, it was just bleh. And her turn to "tough" and dark-ish, what with blackmailing to get her job back and stuff, could have been good, but I just don't buy it. I miss Sara so much just thinking about Laurel's possible plot line next season.
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Re: Arrow

Post  RiverThames on Fri May 16, 2014 12:33 am

Raksha wrote:
TiffanyNichelle wrote:Loved Thea shooting Malcolm. Any other show would have had her shoot at a guy behind him so that was cool. I actually like her going off with Malcolm at the end. She needs to get it together. I liked her character in season one but she's been floundering lately.

I loved that!  Laughed my ass off.  I'm looking forward to her new dark turn next season.

I loved how the io9 describe Thea thusly:

Every moment of Thea's reaction was infused with a delectable brattiness - like a risotto infused with truffles. She makes begging a mad man to kill her quickly sound like a principessa telling her mother to skip the lecture and just write a check for the hotel room she trashed.
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Re: Arrow

Post  QueenSix on Tue Jul 08, 2014 2:55 pm

Brandon Routh joins 'Arrow'

Karl Yune has landed the major recurring role on 'Arrow'

Casting news ahoy! I don't know who any of these characters are, not being familiar with the comics, but I am excited! And you know how I know this show is good? Because my mother, the woman who doesn't really commit to TV shows that often, not only will remember the night Arrow is on but will turn to me out of the blue and say stuff like "Can you believe such and such happened on Arrow? I thought Oliver was in real trouble but if he hadn't John Diggle, he'd be rightly screwed".
This may not seem like much but considering she remembered the character's name, this is a big thing. I mean, the woman loves Sherlock but still refers to Cumberbatch as Paddy Joe Cumberbund and calls the show "That thing on TV that isn't about Poirot". (Huge Poirot fangirl but that's for another thread).

Carry on, Arrow cast and crew, carry on!!

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Re: Arrow

Post  Carrie Ann on Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:41 pm

I'm excited about all the casting news. Devon Aoki was cast too, which is cool. Good to see more ladies on the show. Brandon Routh has never done much for me, but I'm open to it, and I assume they did some chemistry testing to ensure he'd be a good match with Felicity and Oliver. My one concern, also not being a comic-reader,
Spoiler:
is that I would prefer if they kept the meta-human stuff to a minimum on the show. The Atom sounds like...the opposite of that. I kinda hope they keep him normal, with hints that he's working on this advanced technology stuff, but don't actually give him that kind of power.

QueenSix, I love that your mom is so into the show! I still find it sort of amazing that it's so well-done and effective. I have so much affection for it, and find it endlessly rewatchable.
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Re: Arrow

Post  RiverThames on Tue Jul 08, 2014 5:25 pm

Carrie Ann wrote:I'm excited about all the casting news. Devon Aoki was cast too, which is cool. Good to see more ladies on the show. Brandon Routh has never done much for me, but I'm open to it, and I assume they did some chemistry testing to ensure he'd be a good match with Felicity and Oliver. My one concern, also not being a comic-reader,
Spoiler:
is that I would prefer if they kept the meta-human stuff to a minimum on the show. The Atom sounds like...the opposite of that. I kinda hope they keep him normal, with hints that he's working on this advanced technology stuff, but don't actually give him that kind of power.

Well,
Spoiler:
the thing with Ray is he isn't meta-human, but rather has super-science devices.  He definitely fits under the umbrella of the door opened by bringing Barry's speed powers into the mix, in a way that bringing, say, Green Lantern, Martian Manhunter or Aquaman would not.  

My concern is that Ray is really not supposed to be a CEO type.  He's an academic.  When it comes down to it, Ray is the Indiana Jones of Quantum Mechanics.  I wonder if the original plan was for it to be Ted Kord (who is the CEO type), but for one reason or another they changed it.
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Re: Arrow

Post  laddical on Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:27 am

At SDCC, they revealed that an episode about Felicity's backstory would be titled "Oracle".

And there was so much stupid SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE (well, in my head, since I'm the only person in my house who understands how deeply cool that is).

Here's hoping that the Ollie/Felicity romance teased in the new trailer... that if it fails, as it is likely to do, that it leads to Felicity and Canary spinning off into a Birds of Prey series.
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Re: Arrow

Post  PirateCatarina on Sat Jul 26, 2014 8:05 am

This just made the fact that I'm up stupid early on a Saturday bearable. I've been wishing really, really hard for Felicity to be this universe's Oracle (minus paralysis).

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Re: Arrow

Post  Carrie Ann on Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:45 am

Aw, I actually don't want her to be Oracle, and I'm kind of hoping that episode involves her knowing Oracle, from her time at MIT. But I'm open to whatever they want to do, because I really trust the writers. Just don't paralyze Felicity, you bastards!

As for this:

laddical wrote:Here's hoping that the Ollie/Felicity romance teased in the new trailer... that if it fails, as it is likely to do, that it leads to Felicity and Canary spinning off into a Birds of Prey series.
SA also gave an interview yesterday at SDCC in which he said that Felicity is the only woman in Oliver's life this season, and maybe forever because he said the ship has sailed on O/S and O/L, and that Oliver will never be in a relationship with either of them again. WHAT. This is the best show ever.
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Re: Arrow

Post  blixie on Sat Aug 02, 2014 1:15 am

YOU GUYS. I have fallen into an Olicity hole. And I can't get out! Can't /don't want to whatever!


Which is to say I'm mid-S2 watch and gaga for their chemistry, especially in lieu of I fucked your sister drama WHICH would usually fuel my Incest is BEST philosphy of media life, but yeah now Katie Cassidy you suck at portraying a heroic babe. You rule at rootable, evil, trampy sometimes demonic bitches. Go White Canary!

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Re: Arrow

Post  RiverThames on Tue Aug 05, 2014 6:04 pm

Caity Lotz is far tinier than I thought.
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Re: Arrow

Post  laddical on Tue Aug 05, 2014 6:55 pm

Damn. And that's in platforms.
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Re: Arrow

Post  Carrie Ann on Tue Aug 05, 2014 7:15 pm

EEEEE, she's so cute and tiny. I love seeing her in more Mad Men style clothes. She's almost enough to get me to watch that show.

And blixie, are you re-watching, or just watching for the first time?
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Re: Arrow

Post  blixie on Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:03 pm

Both, kind of, I watched on and off through both seasons. So first time I am watching from beginning to end the whole way through, without checking out. I feel like Olicity was the part I was missing by doing that, and really whatever I'm a shipper and I need that to fully connect with this type of show, and I'm pretty fully hooked now.

I think I still have issues with a lot of S1, of the main cast I really only think EBR, Ramsey, and now Barrowman are any kind of consistent good, but Amell, Lotz, and Willa are a ton of fun, and Amell in particular improved by leaps and bounds.

I have loved Katie Cassidy and I do think she has talent, but she has a very narrowly defined wheelhouse, and heroic do gooder babe ain't it, I think she's pretty terribly miscast, but also never actually had a chance because the writers never gave her a chance. From the get her entire history with Oliver was something that was told to us, they *chose* to use flashback and never ever ever touched on pre-island Oliver, we met him and he was already on the Gambit with Sara fucking Laurel over, and not seeming to feel even an iota of guilt about doing so. So weird, so not rootable in any way.

So I have no idea how they get around the canon that Laurel becomes BC. I can't even imagine how pissed I'd be if I signed on to be a badass vigilante and Love Interest of the male hero lead, and I ended up whatever the hell Laurel is supposed to be. Even she had done the greatest job acting in life I'm not sure she could have sold Laurel as believable inevitable BC.

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Re: Arrow

Post  Kiran on Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:53 am

Its the most frustrating part of the show for me too because as a DC comics reader...Black Canary was my favorite. She still is. I grew up reading Birds of Prey, that WAS my book. I also was the perfect age for the Kevin Smith Green Arrow Reboot so to me Green Arrow and Black Canary are OTP. So while I LOVE Olicity? Not rooting for Black Canary PAINS ME. Not having Dinah Laurel Lance be my favorite lady ever? Horrible. And finally getting a media representation of my DC otp and this is it?

I love this show SO MUCH but its the one sour note for me, and yes I think its a combo of how they set up the character of Laurel and her history with Oliver and also Katie Cassidy. I feel the same way about her. She was easily the best thing about that Melrose Place reboot but I think leading lady does not work on her. And its a hard thing to be a CW leading lady and NOT be boring. They struggle with that (I think The Originals and pre season 5 The Vampire Diaries did the best job with that in the CW era). I almost think they should have swapped roles and had Katie Cassidy play Sarah (because I think she could have played that conflicted messed up sister really well), and cast Caity Loitz as Laurel. But again the writing is a huge part of the issue with that storyline.

I love the rest of the show though.
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Re: Arrow

Post  Carrie Ann on Wed Aug 06, 2014 2:37 pm

I guess they never chem-tested KC and SA? Which totally shocks me. They just kinda went to their CW faves pool and cast them both (she might have even been cast before he was...I can't keep this stuff straight). Chemistry would have gone a long way toward making Laurel believable, because her relationship with Oliver was like the focus of her story and backstory for S1, and it just fell flat.

I just don't think she (or the writers) understand or know this character, because Laurel's just like a wireframe. I blame both sides there, because Felicity was real to me from Scene 1. Same for Diggle. Same for Sara when CL took over the role in S2. I believe her. I understand her. I love her. (*sob* please don't take her away from me)

Anyway! Back to the good news. The press/appearances the producers and cast have done since the S2 finale make me really optimistic. I honestly think they see the things that are working and the things that are not, and they are making adjustments. That's pretty awesome, because so many showrunners would just plow ahead with no regard.

This season is the real test I think. Since SA made those comments about Oliver never being with Sara or Laurel again, a lot of people think it's a lock that KC will be Black Canary, because they can't take both the lead love interest and the lead heroine roles from her. I'd prefer to be rid of her for good, but I doubt that's going to happen. So now I'm hoping that she has chemistry with this new love interest guy, and that her character works this season, and she can be a more tolerable presence on the show. I think not having to pretend she and Oliver have any romantic potential will relieve a lot of the dead weight from the role.
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Re: Arrow

Post  Kiran on Wed Aug 06, 2014 4:37 pm

I find that so bizarre that they didn't but it makes sense. I think she WAS cast before him. It was a similar situation with a bunch of their actors where they had been trying to put her in a show for YEARS (Ian Somerhalder, Jensen Ackles, Jared Padelecki, etc all made the rounds as well. So did Joanna Garcia before she finally aged out I think).

Its just depressing to me. Black Canary is such a great character. Its distressing how little of a handle they have on her. Especially since this isn't Supernatural, they can make every other woman work. I don't know. I don't WANT to be rid of her either just because I love the character so much, I want them to find a way to make her work, but I don't know if I see it happening.
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Re: Arrow

Post  truecrystal on Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:35 pm

I think not having to pretend she and Oliver have any romantic potential will relieve a lot of the dead weight from the role.

Agreed. One of my biggest problems with Laurel was the idea that she and Oliver were supposed to be the OTP and I couldn't buy that at. all. I think S2 did a good job whether intentional or not of sinking that 'ship and not just because of the power of Olicity. I mean, it'd be kind of hard to have Oliver get back into a relationship with Sara AGAIN (and not even really be that torn up about doing so) and then pair him back with Laurel. So when he and Sara got together instead of just a one time hook-up, I called L/O DOA. And now that she knows that he's the Arrow and is back in the DA's office, they seem to be setting her up to fill the "inside connection on the bad guys" role which works best for her and Oliver. Still not quite sure how they're going to be able to write themselves out of the Black Canary corner they're in short of killing Sara which NOOOO and Laurel is still such a thinly drawn (or badly written, whichever) character compared to everyone else, but killing the love angle is definitely a step in the right direction.

From a casting perspective, I can't help but wonder if they'd cast KC as the Huntress and Jessica de Gouw as Laurel...

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Re: Arrow

Post  Kiran on Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:10 pm

I actually think acting wise De Gouw is the weakest person they have ever had in a substantial role, lol.
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Re: Arrow

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