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Post  RiverThames on Thu Nov 13, 2014 12:18 pm

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Post  xyzzy on Thu Nov 13, 2014 7:24 pm

Yeah, last night's episode didn't too much for me. The reddits are exploding with joy over the boxing glove arrow and the arsenal exchange. But they're missing how ridiculously awful and non-poignant that exchange was. "He said I was just another weapon in your arsenal!" "Maybe that should be your nickname." Whut. If he'd said that to me I would have blinked a little and said, "So I am just another weapon in your arsenal? That's all I am to you? What the hell, Oliver?"

The biggest offense, though, was Oliver's penis waving. Budget Canary can't be trained by Billy Blanks because he beat a drug dealer to death six years ago? (And really, he didn't.) What about the *dozens* of people you've killed, Oliver? Hmmmmmm? I just wish that Stephen had chemistry with Katie. Then these scenes wouldn't irritate me as much. Also, Katie's makeup artist is way too heavy-handed with the blush. The poor woman looks like she has a fever all the time.
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Post  QueenSix on Fri Nov 14, 2014 2:19 pm

blixie wrote:Next week looks like fun though with Cupid and a Ray/Felicity date. I've always thought Brandon Routh was attractive but wholly hell is he exponentially hotter as Ray Palmer.

We're a few episodes behind but +100 to this. I like Oliver and Felicity together and would not object to that pairing, but give me Ray/Felicity or give me death!

(Not really, I don't want death but I do want Ray & Felicity to hook up. Felicity deserves it at this point).

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Post  laddical on Fri Nov 14, 2014 2:43 pm

Yeah. I'm usually a lot more easy-going on my TV shows than most. I tend to accentuate the positive, as it were. The anti-TWoPper.

But the Boxing Glove Arrow aside... there wasn't anything to accentuate in this episode. It was probably one of the worst of the series. I'm done with the Hong Kong storyline. And while Ted Grant, Vigilante wasn't a horrible story, Oliver's behavior in this episode killed anything good that might have come out of it.
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Post  RiverThames on Fri Nov 14, 2014 4:05 pm

I do have to admit, Ollie's the last person who should be on a "you killed someone!" high horse. Especially if he's all, "Six years ago you should have met the standards that I started meeting last year!"
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Post  Carrie Ann on Fri Nov 14, 2014 5:34 pm

Everyone on that episode had their moments of being out of character, or at least OOC-as we currently know them. It was really strange. It almost felt like a spec script written by someone lacking a full understanding of the show, its history, or its characters. But the co-writers have each written for the series several times, so I just don't really get what happened.

At any rate, it's easy enough to skip over in rewatches, but I am surprised that they would put such a filler episode in the middle of sweeps.
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Post  RiverThames on Thu Nov 20, 2014 12:19 am

Cupid, Katana and Captain Boomerang would have made this episode a winner for me.

But, oh lord, Ray. "White Dwarf Alloy" and a model of the suit. They're going to do it. THEY ARE REALLY GOING TO DO IT.

I really, really hope they're going to reach the season finale of Flash & Arrow and just go full on balls-out Justice League: Arrow, Flash, Atom, Firestorm and Canary. HELL YES. I see no reason why this can't happen.

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Post  RiverThames on Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:51 am

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Post  RiverThames on Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:52 am

I have to respect that they made Captain Boomerang a legit badass.
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Post  Lily Rose on Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:10 am

It wasn't as fun as The Flash, but it reflected the Arrow sensibility a lot more.

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Post  truecrystal on Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:53 am

It was fun in a different way than The Flash I think, and I appreciated that they didn't completely change the tone of the show to be something it's not. It was great to see Team Arrow interacting with Team Flash and with each other without the crushing weight of everything else of the season for a little while. And they did a great job of using the villain to highlight the differences in the two teams and how that effects them personally.

My favorite thing about the crossover eps, especially last night, is Barry and Oliver's relationship. I love them together and how they have no problem calling each other out. Yes, Barry, the Arrow *is* a douche and putting it like that is exactly the way *Oliver* needs to hear it to understand. And again, grinning like an idiot for the ending.

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Post  Carrie Ann on Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:46 pm

I mean, I feel like I could almost just copy my posts from yesterday in The Flash topic. This episode was excellent, and it made me like everyone more (well, not Laurel). ROY, I mean, come on. Cisco, suddenly the MVP. Oliver and Felicity smiling and flirting and being precious. Diggle getting his shit together about Lyla and reacting appropriately to his once-and-future wife being imperiled.

I loved Barry telling Oliver that feeling like he was losing the OQ part of himself was bullshit, because it is. He's doing so much more "human" stuff this season than any other--reaching out to strengthen his relationships with everyone around him (Felicity being the exception). I mean, getting sad about Felicity/Ray last week and then deciding to take Roy over to Diggle and Lyla's for dinner was huge. He's making all these steps toward being a real boy, but he didn't notice that. So I was glad Barry was there to set him straight.

I really love the GG/SA chemistry. That relationship is so believable to me, and you can kind of tell that it mirrors their off-screen relationship too.

I really tried to keep my expectations low, because I've been frustrated with Arrow this season, and charmed but not totally sucked in by The Flash. But I was thrilled with those two hours of TV. After this week, I wish we could have 12 episodes of each show, with all of them being crossovers.
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Post  blixie on Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:06 pm

I also loved both crossover episodes, though The Flash was slightly more giddy fun, but I was surprised by how open, flexible, and hopeful Oliver was even in The Arrow half. "Oliver, you just keep unfolding like a flower!" I get that both shows should maintain their unique identities, but I think both benefitted from the...balance. I wish Flash was week to week a teensy bit less goofy, and good lord do I wish Arrow would lighten up if only a couple of clicks. But yeah these were great episodes to have so close to the mid season, especially with Arrow, I had been so meh and aggravated, and now I'm all in again even enough to weather
Spoiler:
The Laurel Lance is The Crappiest of All Canary's Trilogy that is coming up
.

As for the episode specifically I will never get why they cast Nick Taraby as Captain Boomerang and futbol Crocodile Dundee as Ra's, that guy is just not selling it, while Captain Boomerang was bad ass and threatening in every scene, even while telling bad jokes.

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Post  RiverThames on Wed Dec 10, 2014 11:53 pm

WHAT?!?!

I mean, WHAT?!?!?

I'm presuming there's a Lazarus Pit or something in the future...
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Post  blixie on Thu Dec 11, 2014 12:02 am

Very underwelmed, Zombie Tommy wasn't the stinger/killer, and therefore I'm just beyond underwhelmed. Thea did it under hypnosis...at least until they reveal that was a mindfuck/done with video software. I love how Sara's murder and Thea's killing of her had literally nothing to do with either one of their characters. Nice.

The guy playing Ra's just did not sell any kind of threat or menace when he talked. He's a football player so I knew the fight scene would be good and it was....fine. Oliver is obviously going in a Lazarus Pit and I guess I can still hope the Zombie Tommy reveal is yet to come.

I pretty much liked the Ray and Felicity scenes best if only because they were allowed to breathe. So much plot, so little character.

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Post  RiverThames on Thu Dec 11, 2014 3:46 pm

I agree that, in general, this season has lacked focus. The closest thing there's been is a thematic core of, "Oliver is the guy who can do the hard things no one else can."

I'm wondering-- based on things set up in this episode-- if they're planning on taking a few episodes before Ollie recovers from his sudden and premature death, and having Ray and Laurel attempt step up to fill the vacancy of Starling City's protector. But as they don't have what it takes (yet), it'll fall on to Oliver to pull their collective bacon out of the pan.

Also, I wonder if this show and Flash are collectively Bold & Brave enough to have their finales combine into a big proto-Justice League thing, or if they'll decide it's better to let each finale stand on its own...
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Post  Carrie Ann on Thu Dec 11, 2014 5:05 pm

How they resolve this after the break will determine a lot for me about the thematic success of this Am I the Arrow or am I Oliver or Can I be Both? thing. Right now, it seems like he already realized he IS both? So what's the point after this? Either he comes back as RoboArrow and Team Arrow has to fight with him to get Oliver back, or he comes back ready to fight to live as Oliver and the Arrow. If the latter, then I'm okay with that aspect of S3. If the former, then, sigh.

Otherwise, my general sentiments about Season 3 so far are all over the place. I feel like there have been some high points--the crossover obviously, among others. But I just don't feel like this group of writers has a real handle on how to break a season, and they're focused on having BIG episodes, with everything crammed into them, and it's just kind of killing the flow of the story.

There was basically no development in the "mystery" of Sara's murder from Episode 2 until Episode 9. What did they find that actually made a difference? Nothing. Fingerprints that led nowhere; DNA that they "found" off-screen and couldn't be analyzed until 309; an off-screen virtual autopsy that indicated that the killer might be short. Seriously, what important season-long events happened in any episode aside from the first and last? I guess Ep 4 with Oliver learning about Malcolm and the LoA coming onto the scene, but again, that was completely dropped until this episode. They're just losing the narrative thrust, and it's not like they're picking up the slack with excellent character work. So I just don't get it.

And RiverThames, some spoilery but not too specific info about your post-hiatus question, if you want to read:
Spoiler:
it looks like Oliver is out of Starling for at least episodes 10 & 11, possibly returning at the very end of 312, but really not a presence until 313. The EPs first claimed this was a Black Canary-centered trilogy, but have now been working overtime to claim they never said that and that it's REALLY about Team Arrow. Also, I don't think we're getting another large-scale crossover this season.
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Post  RiverThames on Thu Jan 29, 2015 12:09 am

So, Season Three DID become "The Emerald Archer Rises" without me even realizing that's where it was going.
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Post  blixie on Thu Feb 12, 2015 10:45 am

A poster from Previously TV won the internet last night talking about that joke of an episode last night:

Laurel has a light inside her? So does my refrigerator. Doesn't mean I want to watch it fight crime each week.

Thea and Oliver were wonderful, and Katie actually did impress me, and I actually DO like Laurel (and Roy) more than I did, the problem is for this show I now hate ever single other person. They have all been sacrificed on the alter of making Laurel "likable". She's still not rootable though, so whatevs Guggenheim.

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Post  truecrystal on Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:53 pm

I actually haven't been really upset with this season until last night. I could not believe the blatant Laurel as Canary cheerleading that went on. Four episodes into it and she's a fully functional vigilante now? Please. I so wanted Oliver to be like, "FINE. You think she's ready to be out there on her own? Then YOU watch her back and keep her from killing herself or somebody else. I have a city to protect." For the first time ever, everybody EXCEPT Oliver got a big ol' STFU from me.
I find Oliver's paternalistic macho bullshit tiresome too, but I was totally on his side.

I tell you, there was no good way to make this Canary transition, especially in the rush of trying to do it all this season (which I have no IDEA why they would want to rush it after Sara). But my god, they've managed to eff this thing up royally.

Also? Malcolm Merlyn IS Sylar.

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Post  Carrie Ann on Thu Feb 12, 2015 8:23 pm

Yeah, I vented my spleen at Previously TV and now I'm just kinda over it. Any hopes I had for this season were effectively extinguished by the last four episodes, and it's full-steam ahead on InstaCanary. I'm interested in a detached way about what their big plan is for the season, and what the big payoff is going to be, because it feels like there has to be something that makes all the doom and gloom worth it. But...probably not.

I wish Berlanti weren't so far removed from the show, because while I know he's always been busy with other projects, I do think that his touch must have been responsible for the small relationship moments of past seasons. That's been pretty absent this season, aside from the crossover, and tiny little bites here and there. It seems like Marc Guggenheim has no feel for how human beings behave or what viewers like and what they don't like. Bleh. What a bummer this show is right now.
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Post  blixie on Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:34 pm

This show is exhaustingly stupid and dour, the only person on the show I like anymore is Roy. I'm gonna have to take a long extended break.

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Post  RiverThames on Thu Apr 30, 2015 1:54 pm

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Post  Gallifrey Girl on Mon Sep 07, 2015 6:05 pm

You guys!  I  binge watched Arrow and I absolutely f'n *LOVE* it!!  Caught the first two seasons on Netflix and then bought Season 3 on itunes. Couldn't even wait for it to come out on Netflix, even though it's probably gonna be out soon.

Read the whole thread - seems like some enthusiasm has petered out over the seasons?  So glad I didn't have to wait the six weeks after Oliver got pushed off the cliff to see what happened next.  Watched the Flash crossover episode, though haven't watched the rest of the Flash, but I plan to.

Ollie and Felicity 4eva!

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Post  Carrie Ann on Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:06 pm

Yay, I'm glad you liked it! I'm still very attached to the show, but yeah S3 was kind of brutal for me as a fan. I think my expectations were really high after S2, and even though I lowered my expectations as time went by, I still felt like almost every week, I was disappointed. Overall, I think I'd give S1 a B grade (though it really picked up by the end), S2 an A-, and S3 a C.

I think the #1 thing that hurt Season 3 was bad story/season breaking (pacing, structure, thematic issues). On a macro level: the "story" of 3A was the mystery of who killed Sara, but there was basically no progress on that front until Episode 9. So it was like, BIG EVENT in 301 with Sara's death--stall stall stall--BIG EVENT in 309 when we learn who did it and how and then Oliver DIES WTF! The middle seven episodes barely propelled the season plot along. And that also caused pacing problems on a micro level, because those big episodes were packed and frenetic and poorly edited, and there was no time for moments to breathe or emotional beats to land. The premiere was so chaotic, and so was the midseason finale. In 3B, the big story is...something about the LoA? It's all so muddled and unconvincing, and I think it's because they had specific character goals and plot points to hit, but they screwed up in the way they hit them and didn't let the story flow naturally.

On a character level, the season was supposed to be about Oliver not believing he could be the Arrow and also be himself and have a real life. But what actually happened was that he resolved that conflict for himself in 302! He told Dig that he didn't want to die down in the lair. Okay, cool! Problem solved! From that point on, Oliver wholly embraced the human side of himself--strengthening his relationships with Thea, Roy, Barry, and Dig. His estrangement from Felicity is literally the only remaining shred of this "conflict." (And I guess the fact that he didn't have a real job?) They occasionally paid lip service to it--again, only w/r/t Felicity--but it rang hollow given the way Oliver was actively reaching out to everyone else around him. And then there were smaller things like: Oliver comes back from the dead and immediately agrees to work with Malcolm in order to beat Ra's, and we see Felicity take this grand moral stand against that, which...goes nowhere. Oliver continues to work with him (uh, sorta, I guess, we basically never see it) and in the end that's how he's able to defeat Ra's and free himself of the League! It turns out that it was a very good idea to work with the genocidal maniac! I sure am glad Oliver learned that lesson.... And then by the end of the season, the option of being the Arrow has been removed by external forces anyway? So he didn't have to decide? UGH so stupid.

So the #2 thing that really hurt the season was the shitty character work and the sacrificing of relationships in order to force story and make other characters relevant (Laurel, Malcolm, Ray, and Thea, in that order, IMO), instead of letting things flow naturally. The one thing that really worked and got people engaged in the show, in S2 especially, was Team Arrow--Oliver, Dig, and Felicity. Nothing else worked especially well, or at least not as consistently. They needed to activate those other characters, but to do that, they broke Team Arrow. So we were left with a shambling mess of moving parts--none of which worked nearly as well as Original Team Arrow. Dig and Felicity barely interacted this season, and they totally bungled the O/F conflict. They were awful for the majority of the season--their scenes together from 302-315 are almost uniformly irritating or painful (the Flarrow crossovers are a lovely exception)--and then suddenly in 316, they're being sweet and flirty again. It's pretty obvious that that's the point in writing/production when they'd had enough audience and network feedback to realize they desperately needed to right the ship. I mean, I did appreciate the reversal, but the damage had already been done, in terms of my affection for the characters/ship.

Anyway! So that's a lot of info about why I didn't like the season, BUT because I'm a glutton for punishment, I'm getting my hopes back up for S4. There's a new co-showrunner, and she seems to be more interested in the stuff I care about, so that's promising. Plus, a lot of the talk in the hiatus has been semi-acknowledging the badness of S3, so I think they took a lot of notes and I hope that S4 is better for it. On the downside, there are still two unnecessary series regulars (Malcolm and Laurel) who will take up time and space that I wish could go to others. It's very clear that the old days of Team Arrow are done. So I don't anticipate it getting back to the S2 level of enjoyment for me again, but I'll definitely be happy to just get something better than S3.
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