Sleepy Hollow

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Re: Sleepy Hollow

Post  Carrie Ann on Fri Sep 25, 2015 12:00 pm

MichiSichi wrote:hear hear... I hope so too. Just as long as they have understood we really don't want the whole Katrina business, and now that John Noble is in Elementary we can hope his story line is also smaller.
Katrina and Henry (uhhhhhh was that his name?) are both off the show for good, so that is a point in the Win column.

As for everything else, yeah, I'm not thrilled with the setup for this season and early word on the premiere isn't promising. But I have some hope that many of the problems with 301 are a result of the odd setup,
Spoiler:
i.e., there is little Ichabod/Abbie because they decided to send her off to FBI School or whatever, So once they're re-settled in SH, hopefully future episodes will go back to their partnership. But at the same time, I cannot understand WHY they would set up the season this way, so that it would begin by de-emphasizing the ONLY thing that works and instead introduce a character who will surely feel to the audience like a Katrina replacement, which NO ONE wants. I was planning to watch week-by-week again, but I think I'm back to letting it pile up on my DVR until someone can assure me that conditions have improved.
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Re: Sleepy Hollow

Post  blixie on Fri Sep 25, 2015 1:12 pm

Here's the link to Brown Sista's review. I trust her judgement a lot soooo, I will probably watch and make myself all angry and stuff, and I don't watch TV to be angry! I do like the proposed Villian and I overall still want to have faith that these newer writers understand the shows bread and butter, but something like this premiere is just waving a red flag at the fandom bull.

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Re: Sleepy Hollow

Post  Corvus on Fri Sep 25, 2015 1:34 pm

I tried to give Minority Report a fair shake, I really did. A little voice in my head kept saying 'cute kids, but no Abbie and Ichabod.'

It appears I should prepare myself for Abbie and Ichabod not being Abbie and Ichabod either.
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Re: Sleepy Hollow

Post  bookworm on Fri Sep 25, 2015 1:49 pm

I don't think the show is ever going to have them together (the actors basically said that at DragonCon), and I'm ok with that. I think it is refreshing to have a male-female friendship that isn't just about when they're going to get together. I do think that they should focus on their relationship and their activities instead of constantly throwing more new characters at us. That's what made the show good, and Katrina wasn't even that much of a romantic part of season one.
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Re: Sleepy Hollow

Post  Carrie Ann on Fri Sep 25, 2015 2:58 pm

Yeah, I'm not mad at this for shipping reasons. (Okay, not only because of shipping reasons.) Whether they ever go there romantically or not (and I'd lean toward guessing "not" even if I didn't think this was probably the last season), their partnership is clearly the best thing about the show. They already spent one season squandering that (and Irving, Jenny, and the various permutations of those relationships) and tanking their ratings and critical reception. With a new creative team in place, you'd think the focus would be on recapturing the things that made the show great, but...like I said, this just isn't very promising.
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Re: Sleepy Hollow

Post  Grainne Mhaol on Fri Oct 02, 2015 6:45 am

That was... okay. Not as good as I'd hoped but not as bad as I'd feared. It felt a bit like what the 'difficult second season' should have been if the actual second season hadn't been run into the ground by a maniac. It was pretty much what I'd expect a new showrunner trying to desperately course-correct would come up with. My main problem was it felt a bit generic. With Irving and Headless gone (as well as the other Horsemen apparently) it felt a bit like Random Supernatural TV Show. Shannyn Sossamon was creepily effective as Pandora, but until we find out her motivation and how (or if) she's linked to the Apocalypse, she felt a bit like a place holder for the original mythology.

Some of the Ichabod stuff was a hoot though, and I'm glad they appear to be developing his character from emo-Ichabod from season one and the slightly oafish character in season two. I would have liked some more emotion in his reunion with Abbie though - however Nicole Beharie's facial expressions during Ichabod's monologues about being alone were really touching.

The most worrying character of Betsy Ross was exactly what I'd thought she'd be - a replacement for Katrina, but it seems like the relationship between her and Ichabod is being played as a counterpoint to his and Abbie's - more like flirtatious colleagues. If it continues in that vein, I have no problem with it. I remain optimistic and plan keep watching until cancellation (whether that be sooner or later).
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Re: Sleepy Hollow

Post  Coneycat on Fri Oct 02, 2015 8:09 am

I mostly liked it--I missed Irving, and I hope there's some way to get Headless back-- hey! maybe freeing him will turn out to be the key to stopping Pandora!-- but for the most part I liked it. Crane felt kind of sadder and wiser, and I absolutely agree that Nicole Beharie's facial expressions should be treasured. If the next few shows emphasize the re-establishment of the partnership, I will be very happy.

It was very good to see Jenny back and taking up her role as the character who deals with weird artifacts. Hawley, you will not be missed. Please stay gone.

I noticed, with some displeasure, the reference to Betsy Ross as Ichabod's "partner"-- if the show decides to try and draw parallels/equivalence between that partnership and the One, True Partnership I actually tune in for, I will be pissed. However, in small doses and especially if she proves competent, I can handle her. (Although if she and Ichabod had a thing at some point I am a little confused about where it fit into the timeline with Katrina, but this won't be the first time I've found myself unclear on the flashback-timeline of a show.)

The only other thing I've ever seen Shannyn Sossamyn in was A Knight's Tale, in which she was much the least interesting element, so I was pleased to find her creepy and competent in her EEEEvil. If they make her a credible adversary I would be very pleased.

Small point but maybe a hopeful one-- in Season One most of the incidental characters were people of colour. Last night, a majority of the incidental characters were people of colour. I hope that means something, given the way last season a lot of the complaints about the show centred around the interesting POC characters being replaced by generic white characters.

So I liked the episode a lot more than I was afraid I would, if less than I had hoped. I have my fingers crossed. (I also have my fingers crossed that, when Elementary comes back-- presumably on Thursdays-- it won't be scheduled directly opposite Sleepy Hollow. I mean, I would choose Elementary every time for it is my One True Show, but I'd be sorry about it.) (That might even drive me to finally get PVR, and that way madness lies!)

ETA: quite positive but spoilerrific review of the premiere.

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Re: Sleepy Hollow

Post  sagitare on Fri Oct 02, 2015 11:49 am

I was rather pleasantly surprised by the opener, I have to say. It definitely felt much more like Season 1, and I quite liked the callbacks to the pilot. I mean, in some ways it was kind of funny because it was so obvious TPTB were all JUST IGNORE WHAT HAPPENED LAST YEAR, PLEASE. But I thought those connections back to season 1 showed the thought that went into not just patching over season 2 but reaffirming the core strengths of the show.

Loved seeing Jenny back in kicking ass form. I really liked how her relationship with Crane evolved and am looking forward to more of that this year. Her lines about Irving gave me hope that maybe he'll make his way back to the show at some point. WE LOVE YOU ORLANDO. I thought Nicole was just fabulous - she was acting the shit out of that entire episode with just facial expressions, quite honestly. The scene where she realizes where her real work lies - in being a Witness and fighting evil - was so well done. And her reactions to seeing Crane again after that long absence were wonderful.

Speaking of Crane, I laughed at loud at his "You're not a pirate!" bit, and that whole thing he did with his fingers and his heart when leaving the prison (then again at the end in the bar). The look Nicole gave him the first time he did it in prison was a hoot.

I was also pleased with Pandora. I thought she came off with a lot of weight and seriousness that I wasn't expecting. Pandora definitely is someone who you wouldn't be fucking with, and I liked that Shannyn Sossamon also seems to have an inherent aspect of...danger isn't exactly the right word, but she can come across as being somewhat off-kilter, in an edgy way. Like, she'd be smiling and all easy-breezy one minute, but then pulling a knife on you in the next, without batting an eye. I think that works really well with this character, so I hope Pandora continues to be an actual creepy badass. Sossamon can certainly sell it (although she seemed to be affecting some kind of weird lisp with her accent in the beginning? She was much better once she dropped it by the end - I hope she sticks with that).

I was far less impressed with Reed's Betsy Ross. Even in her brief appearance I thought Reed was awful - her line delivery was terrible, and she looked so awkward fighting her way across that battlefield. It's like you could see her thinking her way through the blocking and pacing of the scene: "Run three steps, pause. Draw gun and fire. Wait one second, then run over to that tree. Stop." That Ross is a spy is a nifty idea but I can only hope Reed gets better because I'm thinking the character is going to be getting much more screen time as the season goes on.

Overall though, I think it's off to a good start, much better than I would have thought, to be honest. The 'monster of the week' format doesn't thrill me but eh, I can live with it. It's kind of a fact of life with these types of shows anyway so at least this cast has an excess of chemistry to make it interesting and watchable.

ETA: I just read the article coneycat linked and it makes a good point about how Pandora could potentially function as as place to bring together those one-off episodic stories with an overall season arc, so here's hoping.


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Re: Sleepy Hollow

Post  Gallifrey Girl on Fri Oct 02, 2015 11:52 am

I enjoyed it! I thought the "whites of their eyes" thing was an amusing way of giving an old phrase a new origin!

Can I be shallow and talk hair?  I loved Ichabod's longer hair! ::sniff::  Is this a new wig, or has the actor been growing it out these last two years?  I don't know much about him, but I remember an Entertainment Weekly article from a year or two back and he had quite short hair in it. I don't know if it would have had time to grow as long as it was last night.  If it was just a wig change, then I much preferred the older one.   Still undecided on Abby's shorter, curlier hair. I liked it, but I don't think it was an improvement over her longer hair.

Loved the look Ichabod gave Abby when Jenny hugged him so enthusiastically.


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Re: Sleepy Hollow

Post  sagitare on Fri Oct 02, 2015 11:56 am

I believe that's his actual hair this time around. I miss the longer hair, too! Although the short cut had grown on me by the end of the episode, I have to say (the fact that he and Abbie have the same style was pretty funny).


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Re: Sleepy Hollow

Post  Corvus on Fri Oct 02, 2015 12:09 pm

"...the whites of their eyes...": the one moment (daffy and ridiculous) that felt like the Sleepy Hollow of olde. That actually is hopeful, it means the magic is still there somewhere, buried under the overwritten, tepid... Let's not be a Negative Nancy. Adequate? Attempting to make amends? Alright. Patience. Pandora was perhaps too 'well lit' this early out but she was okay.

HOWEVER. (thus endeth my patience)

A brand new FBI agent with plenty of free time to be a witch hunter? Sure.

Best place for a pair of shady characters to run around with firearms? At a major FBI operation.

C Tommy Howell dead already?

Betsy Mary Ross Sue: Superspymodel. Seriously?
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Re: Sleepy Hollow

Post  particle_person on Fri Oct 02, 2015 1:13 pm

Anyone know any (quick) recap sites, not blow-by-blow, that would let me get caught up to this season? I...would rather not waste my time on S2.

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Re: Sleepy Hollow

Post  naughty zoot on Fri Oct 02, 2015 6:49 pm

Holy cats, that was C Thomas Howell? Hello (and goodbye?) stranger, long time no see.

I thought it was way better than expected. Fairly certain we could all do without the Betsy Ross subplot, but if they keep it from interfering much I'll let it slide.
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Re: Sleepy Hollow

Post  Corvus on Fri Oct 02, 2015 6:55 pm

C Thomas Howell? Hello (and goodbye?)
Choose one of:

A. Returning as zombie

B. Returning as ghost

C. Is cousin of producer
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Re: Sleepy Hollow

Post  Coneycat on Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:37 am

Oh... oh dear, that was disappointing. Unless it got more interesting in the second half hour, because I confess by 10:30 the cats and I had had enough and we decided to spend the rest of the evening reading. I wasn't very interested in the monster of the week, the revelation of General Howe as some kind of necromancer (but not the fun Johannes Cabal kind) irritated me (what am I thinking? OF COURSE the British represent hellish evil and America the bulwark of all virtue and salvation of the world!), and Sexy Betsy Ross, on closer inspection, is even more irritating than I feared-- mostly because the actress's accent, diction, and general demeanour is so relentlessly modern that she doesn't even give the impression of someone making a good try at a costume party. And also because I know I, as a viewer, am supposed to overlook the fact her timeline with Ichabod has to overlap his timeline with Katrina, but I can't, mostly because swapping Katrina for a character I find much more annoying is not doing much for my enjoyment of the flashbacks. Also, Ichabod, you are a fine one to talk about turncoats, if we get right down to it.

Ahem. Things might have picked up in the second half, but the half I saw was just lame and disappointing. It did cross my mind this morning that I probably should want to know how the Jenny and Joe subplot turned out, but at the time I just wasn't interested enough to stick around and find out. Damn.

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Re: Sleepy Hollow

Post  Carrie Ann on Fri Oct 09, 2015 11:41 am

I thought the episode had maybe five good scenes, which probably added up to about 10 minutes or so of its run time. Not great. In the first half, I liked the Crane/Abbie lingerie/roomie opener (and I did kinda like the moment where Crane met her new boss and was immediately jealous), and then the Joe/Jenny scene. In the back half, I liked both other J/J scenes and the final Crane/Abbie scene, where she tells him she's been watching her dad for months, trying to get up the nerve to go talk to him. That was nice. After hearing NR say one line last week, I knew Betsy was a no-go for me, so I've ff-ed every flashback and have no intention of stopping. They add nothing, except something to look at while IC delivers exposition. Just skip it and get back to the action.

I think the show could stand to find a little more humor and energy again, but I'm not sure it will ever get either back. I will say that I think Tom Mison is still giving it his all, but I've found NB's delivery very flat sometimes this season. I think she may just be over it.
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Re: Sleepy Hollow

Post  Gallifrey Girl on Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:11 pm

I was disappointed too. It didn't hold my interest and I started checking my phone while it was on, and I never do that!

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Re: Sleepy Hollow

Post  blixie on Fri Oct 09, 2015 1:06 pm

I think she may just be over it.

I think it would be hard not to be, but I thought Tom was often the same way last season, aka clearly turned off by the material and struggling to find the fun core of the character again.

I fell asleep watching last nights episode, but I'll be fair and attribute that more to my being over tired and having a glass of wine than it's not being entertaining, but I did really enjoy the premiere. I'll give it a few episodes to get it's groove back and find it's new normal, but if this IS it's new normal: SIGH. And yes Betsy Ross is everything I expected her to be: terrible. I won't go so far as to say she's worse than Katrina, not hearing the whispering and her being actually EFFECTIVE will do that, but I don't care about her, she isn't needed and the over reliance on FB is annoying. FB are not why people tuned in each week, you can get in to TWISTORY w/o giving Ichabod a parallel storyline every episode back in the past. It confirms that absolutely everyone at Fox and on the writing team want the show to be primarily if not entirely about him and his journey and his LADIES so many ladies.

I do like Pandora and the monsters this year are still effectively creepy. So I guess I'm in to the last half assed breath.

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Re: Sleepy Hollow

Post  dionneshea on Fri Oct 09, 2015 1:26 pm

I, surprisingly, actually really like Shannyn Sossamon's Pandora. I was expecting not too much, but like what she's doing there. I'm interested in the character and the storyline.

Betsy Ross, however... I don't know Nikki Reed from anything other than being Somerhalder's wife, but WOW is she terrible. Like, so bad. Distractingly bad. And why is she there? She's not doing anything. It's so useless.

But, I really liked the Jenny and Joe parts, and it does feel like there has been a lot more Abbie and Ichabod interaction so far this year, so I'll stick it out.
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Re: Sleepy Hollow

Post  Grainne Mhaol on Fri Oct 09, 2015 2:44 pm

I know they're trying to right the ship and put all the pieces in play, but instead felt a bit like treading water to be honest. The MOTW felt very generic and sub-Pied Piper, which is a wrench to admit, because even the opening episodes of Season Two had more energy and pace than what we have seen so far.

Poor Joe, I was so excited to see him again (as an EMT? What happened to Quantico? I guess they didn't want everyone in the FBI, but I was looking forward to Abbie and Joe working in the field together) but he went down like a calf at a rodeo and spent the rest of the episode tied to a tree. Doesn't he have military training? Shouldn't he have been able to defend himself against a car door? Also, I'd much rather see him and Jenny spring into action to retrieve the Shard of Whatever rather than discussing it over a beer, because as much as I love their interactions, it makes it seem like the writers haven't thought up its significance yet.

Sexy Betsy was as terrible and pointless as last week, and I cringe to think that she'll be playing a major role this season. Major misstep, as I have written at length before.

I kind of agree with some of the criticism of Nikki Beharie to a degree. I can't put my finger on it, but there's something missing from hers and Tom Mison's chemistry. Maybe with Kantrina gone, the writers can't figure out how to develop their relationship, but the intensity of their bond seems absent somehow. I did want less Crane man-pain, but I guess the result is less tragic hand-holding and gazing into each others' eyes. Sigh.

I continue to like and be intrigued by Pandora - I really hope the tree she's cultivating is related to Moloch's white trees in some way. I'd really like to see some tie-in with the original mythology because it seems like the stakes are pretty low right now - at least until we know Pandora's motivation. For all Moloch turned into a pretty useless Big Bad by the end, at least his Evil Plan was ambitious. The show at present is not.

I'm pretty much resigned to the idea that this may well be the last season, but I'm still hopeful.
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Re: Sleepy Hollow

Post  Coneycat on Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:56 am

I'm beginning to think I'm out. For the second week in a row, I gave up on the episode at around the halfway mark and went off to read in bed. It may have picked up in the last twenty-six minutes but that seems like too long to wait for a show to get interesting.

I do appreciate that Jenny now has her own quest and her own minion (and a cute, if prickly, little minion he is) and I expect it to link up with the main story eventually. But my problem is with the main story. Last season, as frustrating as it could be and as annoying as the use of Katrina turned out, I at least mostly bought into the obstacle between Ichabod and Abbie: Katrina was after all Ichabod's wife, he had a bond with her, and as badly as it was handled it at least made sense that the relationship be addressed.

This season, the Witnesses are ostensibly working together, but in practice the long flashbacks just eat up the time they spend together, with them standing around together with while Ichabod declaims (offscreen) and Abbie listens (offscreen). And they spend too much time going their separate ways to do things that do not interest me overmuch. Abbie's new boss could be a welcome addition, except so far he shows up for a minute here and there and a lot of that time is wasted on the ambiguous "chemistry" they're supposed to have instead of involving him in the plot somehow. (You know what pairing actually has chemistry? Abbie and Ichabod! How about a little more of that!) Ichabod's quest for America could be interesting if, as in season one, there were those little moments of making him face the fact that the ideal of America he betrayed his country for believed in two hundred years ago is not precisely the America he's now encountering in 2015. If that thread never returns I don't know what interest his quest for citizenship is going to hold for me, apart from potentially adding Miss Historical Society as an ambiguous love interest for Ichabod. And seriously, please God no.

Also I hope Pandora got more interesting in the last half of the episode because so far she seems like wasted evil potential.

However, on the bright side, at least this episode's flashback didn't feature Sexy Betsy Ross or the foul redcoat necromancers. I certainly won't miss those elements if they don't come back. However, at this point I'm seriously questioning whether I'm going to be around to see. This is two out of three episodes I've just found dreary, and if there's one thing Sleepy Hollow should not be, it's dreary.

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Re: Sleepy Hollow

Post  Gallifrey Girl on Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:07 pm

Yup, that was dreary. Going the Jack the Ripper route was unnecessary. And while I really don't need to see them do research in real time, for only five seconds to go by between asking if there were any murders in a certain area at a certain time and finding the solution is ridiculous.

The guy playing Clancy Brown's son looks so much like him!

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Re: Sleepy Hollow

Post  Grainne Mhaol on Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:47 pm

I really liked this episode. While the Jack the Ripper aspect was rote and unnecessary, I liked the twists and turns in the story and that its resolution involved some intelligence and self-sacrifice. It was leaps and bounds ahead of last week, which isn't saying much because I really didn't care for that episode.

However, the episodic nature of the revamped show is really starting to grate on me. Without an overarching threat or emotional core, it's starting to get really repetitive. As much as I despised Katrina, Ichabod needs to establish a stronger character without her that isn't strictly comedic this season - he's been pretty lightweight so far. Having said that, the emotional parts of the show worked for me. The bond between Abbie and Ichabod seemed more solid this episode, though I feel that Abbie is holding a lot back and we could be in for a big emotional catharsis on her part. I'm hoping so, otherwise Nicole Beharie is just sleepwalking through this season because she sees the writing on the wall.

I want some revelation about Pandora's plan really soon because all the mysterious posturing in shady corners smacks of wheel-spinning. Same for Jenny and Joe's story - I need some revelations about the Shard of Whatever and Papa Corbin's secrets yesterday.

The scene with Ichabod on the couch warmed my shipper heart, though. They'd better move forward on that front by the end of this season, as it will probably be the last.
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Re: Sleepy Hollow

Post  Grainne Mhaol on Fri Oct 23, 2015 7:55 am

Another really enjoyable episode. I don't want to tempt fate but it seems like the show is taking real steps towards finding its feet again.

The monster was freaking terrifying - up there with the Sandman in the league of classic Sleepy Hollow creatures. The sisters Mills continue to be awesome and amazing and I look forward to more development of their relationship. This corrects the horribly misguided attempts last season to drive a wedge between them with Hawley.

Pandora is a really fascinating and creepy character and Shannyn Sossamon keeps delivering surprises every week. However, I can't wait to find out more about her evil plans because I'm really over her penchant for gardening.

Katrina 2: Electric Boobaloo still sucks, both in concept and execution. I don't understand her presence in this series - other than attracting the teen audience because her scenes are awful. Giving Ichabod two love interests is compounding the problems I had last season, not correcting them. Also, 'Go with it'? Jesus, show.

I never thought I'd say this, but Tom Mison needs to tone down the comedy, because the character coming across as schizophrenic at present. The broad comedy doesn't match with the more somber moments and makes him seem like a buffoon. More Joe Corbin please, because the little we see of him at present is more compelling than Hawley was all of last season.
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Re: Sleepy Hollow

Post  sagitare on Fri Oct 23, 2015 3:11 pm

Grainne Mhaol wrote:I never thought I'd say this, but Tom Mison needs to tone down the comedy, because the character coming across as schizophrenic at present. The broad comedy doesn't match with the more somber moments and makes him seem like a buffoon.
I was saying the same thing to Coneycat the other week, that the show really amped up that side of the character to a degree that's bordering on caricature, imo.
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Re: Sleepy Hollow

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