The Walking Dead

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Re: The Walking Dead

Post  punkysdilemma on Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:25 pm

The reveal definitely brought me up short (I can't believe it didn't occur to me that Sophia could be in the barn) but was also initially confusing because I didn't recognize her at first. She's been gone from the show for ages so I forgot what she was wearing, and the zombie prosthetics made her look older.
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Re: The Walking Dead

Post  RiverThames on Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:28 pm

There's something to be said here about the compromises one makes for the illusion of safety. Both Rick and Dale know that Hershel is wrong, but they want the possibility of staying in the supposed safe harbor of the farm so badly they are willing to do things they know are wrong and foolish-- compromise their actual safety in the name of the illusion of safety. They lie to themselves that it's better to go along with what Hershel wants.

The appearance of Sophia from the barn highlights the level of betrayal of principle staying with Hershel would entail. They wasted time, they risked lives, looking for Sophia, and Hershel could have told them the truth and saved them the trouble. Glenn was right: secrets are too dangerous in the zombie apocalypse.

At the same time, Shane may be right, but he goes about it in the wrong way. He has a hissy fit instead of making a legitimate point.

I read somewhere else a Lord of the Flies comparison going on here, where Shane is Jack and Rick is Ralph. (Of course, in this metaphor, Dale would be Piggy.)
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Re: The Walking Dead

Post  biakbiak on Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:37 pm

Hershel could have told them the truth and saved them the trouble.

According to Robert Kirkman, Hershel didn't know that Sophia was in there and the audience was supposed to know this because of the one line where they say that rounding up the walkers was Otis's job and he died before he knew they were looking for Sophia. Apparently, an earlier version of the script had a flashback of Otis rounding her up but it got cut. '

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Re: The Walking Dead

Post  bloomtoperish on Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:14 pm

As soon as all the walkers started coming out of the barn, I was pretty sure Sophia would be one of them. But I didn't even think of that possibility before that at all. I was still teary-eyed when she walked out though, and then of course when Rick had to shoot her. And then eye-rolly because OF COURSE Rick stepped up and did the job while Shane and Andrea just stood there like dumbasses. (I hate them. Can they die now?)

ETA: I agree that Shane has the right idea but he goes about it the wrong way. The WAY wrong way.

February cannot come soon enough.

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Re: The Walking Dead

Post  punkysdilemma on Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:18 pm

Not sure how you feel about spoilers from previews, but the teaser scene in the middle of Hell on Wheels was:
Spoiler:
basically Rick and Shane yelling at Hershel for not telling them about Sophia, and Hershel says he didn't know she was there, that Otis had probably put her in the barn.
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Re: The Walking Dead

Post  laddical on Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:43 pm

There are valid points to be made about dumbass behavior all around, but I don't care. I love the show and the conflicts between the survivors, wrongheaded as they are at times, is as much a part of that as the walkers.

I also agree the show dragged out these two story points a little longer than necessary, but I think that's a problem with the hour-long format more than anything. Looking back, there isn't a single thread I'd want to remove completely, but trying to decide what to cut and what to keep from each thread presents a problem. Sure, you can shave five minutes here and five minutes there, but since each episode has to have its own beginning, middle, and end you end up with scene padding because there's just not enough story for seven full episodes but there's no way to really re-structure the story into five or six distinct episodes without screwing up the pacing in the opposite direction, where things feel herky-jerky and poorly developed (I call this the "Grant Morrison Style of Storytelling" because so many of his comics feel exactly like that - he tries to cram too much story into too few issues and instead of a series where you just wish he'd get to the point you end up wondering, "What the hell did I just read?").

My wife finally gave up the pretense of watching this against her will and made me go back through Season One with her. It's easy to forget watching an episode at a time how decompressed the storytelling is on this show - very Lost-ish. Here's what I calculate Rick's timeline has been so far:

Day 1 - Wake up, meet Morgan and Duane
Day 2 - Gear from the sheriff's armory, travelling to Atlanta
Day 3 - Atlanta, meets Glenn and the rest, goes to the camp that afternoon
Day 4 - Back to Atlanta, attack on the camp
Day 5 - Break camp, off to the CDC
Day 6 - Escape the CDC, on the road
Day 7 - Sophia runs off
Day 8 - Carl shot, Shane and Otis go find equipment

It's possible more than a single day passed between leaving the CDC and Sophia's disappearance, but if I remember the season premiere correctly, it was definitely one day to the next between her running off and Carl getting shot, which means if Otis put her in the barn she was turned very shortly after Rick left her.

Things get a little fuzzier after that, I think, but I can't imagine they've been at the farm for more than a week at this point, which means Carl is one of the speediest recoveries from a gun shot to the abdomen ever.

Carol's been a little crazy, but I think it's understandable. I just hope this doesn't drive her over the edge completely. She seems to be a solid human connection for Daryl at this point, and without her I'd hate to see him spinning off into Shane 2.0.
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Re: The Walking Dead

Post  xyzzy on Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:34 am

Two things that drive me crazy, not so much about in the show itself but wrt online discussions of the show.

1. Claims that the show is misogynist or anti-feminist. I truly do not understand this. In my universe, feminism is more about women being able to do what they WANT to do, not necessarily doing what MEN do. I think it makes perfect sense that the formerly abused wife doesn't know too much about tracking or shooting. SOMEONE has to do camp stuff, and she'd be a liability if she went out searching for her daughter. And I don't remember what Laurie did pre-zombie apocalypse, but she doesn't actually seem all that interested in kicking zombie ass. The other women seem to ride horses, carry guns, do recon, have opinions... what's so misogynist about that?

2. Insistence that everyone on the show does dumb shit and therefore deserves to die. I guess I'm not sure why people would want to watch a show where everyone always makes the right decisions and is bad-ass. I think the *real* problem is that most of the characters aren't changing or following an arc. I'd only really miss Daryl if he went away--I think he's growing as a person and is having a journey that's interesting. I think these last couple of episodes are somewhat promising in this regard--hopefully the second half of the season focuses more on character growth and less on daily survival. I also want more on the wider picture. What the hell is going on out there?

I really like this show. I acknowledge that there are problems, but I always look forward to the next episode.
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Re: The Walking Dead

Post  jcpdiesel21 on Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:21 am

truecrystal wrote:I think I was supposed to be all torn like the characters when Sophia was revealed to be a walker, but I was screaming "shoot her in the face!". It's possible I have no soul though. It's also possible that they milked the "Where's Sophia?" and "What's in the barn? Walkers are in the barn!" story lines to death and I was ready for them both to be OVER.
Yeah, I'm with you on this. The longer Sophia stayed missing, the more likely that it was that she had turned into a zombie, and when the camera lingered on the barn after all of the other walkers had emerged and had been dispensed of, it seemed obvious that she was going to come out as well. I think this reveal was supposed to pack an emotional punch, but the fact that this storyline has dragged out far too long plus the fact that Sophia was incredibly stupid in her initial behavior following the zombie herd on the highway negated this for me. It could have been a brilliant reveal if it was a character that I was invested in, but I don't think the show did a good job with this.

I like the show, but I have some major problems with it at this point. The source material definitely isn't perfect, and I am fine with any detours that the show takes from the comics. But I think these detours need to be worth it, otherwise they just feel like meandering filler. It felt like the first half of this season had about three to four episodes worth of material that was stretched over seven episodes, which made the pace incredibly slow. And I'm not demanding zombie attacks every episode; I really enjoy the quieter moments that develop the characters in the books. Often this show sacrifices character for the sake of plot. Take Dale's actions in this episode, for instance: him attempting to hide the guns in the swamp from an increasingly erratic Shane was a dumb move; what if another character had needed a gun in a pinch? This entire situation was poorly set up by the writers for Dale and Shane's confrontation where Shane took the guns back. Couldn't this have been done in a different way without making Dale look like a jerk? Dale and Andrea are two characters in particular who I really enjoy in the comics but I have not particularly enjoyed what they have done with them on the show so far.

One of the biggest disappointments of this episode was that no one died (unless you count Sophia, who was already pretty much dead). Shane releasing the walkers from the barn so suddenly seemed set up for some cannon fodder to bite it, yet no one was in too much danger. There is so much dead weight on this show right now; why are some of these characters being kept around? What is T-Dog's purpose? And how many people live on Hershel's farm, anyway?

This post comes across as endless bitching, but I do like a lot about the show. I just think it could be a lot better than it currently is, which is frustrating as a big fan of the comics.
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Re: The Walking Dead

Post  RiverThames on Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:15 pm

laddical wrote:
Day 1 - Wake up, meet Morgan and Duane
Day 2 - Gear from the sheriff's armory, traveling to Atlanta
Day 3 - Atlanta, meets Glenn and the rest, goes to the camp that afternoon

I might argue that more time than that transpired between Rick waking up and arriving in Atlanta. We weren't shown the full scope of the trip, but I can believe it was a few days.
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Re: The Walking Dead

Post  truecrystal on Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:34 pm

Claims that the show is misogynist or anti-feminist. I truly do not understand this. In my universe, feminism is more about women being able to do what they WANT to do, not necessarily doing what MEN do. I think it makes perfect sense that the formerly abused wife doesn't know too much about tracking or shooting. SOMEONE has to do camp stuff, and she'd be a liability if she went out searching for her daughter. And I don't remember what Laurie did pre-zombie apocalypse, but she doesn't actually seem all that interested in kicking zombie ass. The other women seem to ride horses, carry guns, do recon, have opinions... what's so misogynist about that?

While I don't think the show is misogynist or anti-feminist, I do think the female characters have been short-changed in the character development department as compared to the men. But that has more to do with failure on the writers' parts than some sort of anti-feminist agenda. And it's not like all the men are fully realized characters either (again, poor T-Dog). I don't need to see the women kicking zombie ass, but I would like to get a sense of how the zombie apocalypse has changed them as people. I think Andrea's storyline has been the most successful at that because her sister's death was a catalyst. I have hopes for Carol, especially now that Sophie's dead, because she will be forced once again to change roles and how she defines herself. She's made the transition from abused wife to single mom to more open single mom, and while it was a quiet story I think it worked. Lori's whole story thus far has pretty much been hoohah drama as has Maggie's, but again, hopefully the barn cleaning will open up some possibilities for them too.

I bitch about the show a lot, I know. I haven't read the source material so it's not that, but rather I feel like there's a FANTASTIC premise that isn't being lived up to in terms of execution. For as much as I can't stand Shane, he is a GREAT character as is Daryl. I'm mostly meh on Rick, but that's more because of Lincoln's acting than anything else. And poor, poor T-Dog.




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Re: The Walking Dead

Post  laddical on Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:08 pm

RiverThames wrote:
laddical wrote:
Day 1 - Wake up, meet Morgan and Duane
Day 2 - Gear from the sheriff's armory, traveling to Atlanta
Day 3 - Atlanta, meets Glenn and the rest, goes to the camp that afternoon

I might argue that more time than that transpired between Rick waking up and arriving in Atlanta. We weren't shown the full scope of the trip, but I can believe it was a few days.

It's indeed possible, but it's only a six hour drive from Cynthiana, KY, to Atlanta. Now, that's probably accounting for freeways with no traffic jams, so it may have taken up to two days instead of one, but I can't see it taking much longer than that unless Rick had an adventure or two along the way - which doesn't seem to have been the case, given how casually he rounded that corner on the horse right into the mosh pit of walkers.
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Re: The Walking Dead

Post  josie on Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:38 pm

Ooh, just finished watching the last episode. While I agree that it was quite slow moving with all the talking and the feelings, I was quite impressed with the last few minutes of the show. For me, that made up for the rest of the episode. Mostly because I didn't think the show would dare show that little girl getting shot and killed. ( Then again, I should have known; we've already had a little girl zombie and Carl getting shot) I can't wait to see what will happen now that they've basically burnt all bridges (killing Hershel's family and friends and finding Sophia).
I' m going to miss my boyfriend shouting "fuck you Sarah Tancredi" , at least once an episode.

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Re: The Walking Dead

Post  xyzzy on Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:29 am

For as much as I can't stand Shane, he is a GREAT character as is Daryl.
I agree with this--though I'd prefer to find one more character to really root for on this show. This last episode changed my opinion of him slightly. I'm starting to really admire his honesty and utilitarian practicality, as harsh as it seems. He's a dick, but he's starting to make a lot of sense.
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Re: The Walking Dead

Post  Wildog27 on Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:01 pm

Actor Sam Witwer discusses Frank Darabont's departure from The Walking Dead and a once-possible prequel: http://youtu.be/uCyjdBac6p4

He's pretty pissed off about it and the prequel sounds like it could have been cool.

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Re: The Walking Dead

Post  laddical on Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:41 pm

After the departure of Frank Darabont, the show moves in a new direction...

Show me that smile again; don't waste another minute on your cryin'....
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Re: The Walking Dead

Post  Wildog27 on Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:16 pm

That is freaking genius.

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Re: The Walking Dead

Post  xyzzy on Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:07 pm

I'm very curious to see how the show changes now that Darabont's influence on the production is absent. I'm a Darabont fangirl, but I do question his desire to do a full-blown prequel episode with a high budget for a character who is, for all intents and purposes, meaningless. And while I like the show a lot, I think I could have loved it. The tensions between Darabont & the network are evident in show itself, which is never a good thing.

Show me that smile again; don't waste another minute on your cryin'....
*snort*
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Re: The Walking Dead

Post  MichiSichi on Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:58 am

Ha! that was brilliant. Still on episode 1 here but am kind of depressed that it will change for the worse with Darabonts departure
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Re: The Walking Dead

Post  xyzzy on Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:07 am

Still on episode 1 here but am kind of depressed that it will change for the worse with Darabonts departure

Not necessarily; the next episode marks Darabont's absence from production.
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Re: The Walking Dead

Post  MichiSichi on Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:17 am

Good to know, I love this show so much, I even watch it when I know hubbie is not at home - yes I am 36 and am still scared of the dark ...
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Re: The Walking Dead

Post  Wildog27 on Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:04 pm

Interesting interview with Robert Kirkman and Glen Mazzara about the 2nd half of Season 2. They seem to acknowledge that the first half moved a bit slowly at time, but toe the party line about paying attention to characters. http://collider.com/robert-kirkman-glen-mazzara-walking-dead-season-two-interview/140258/

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Re: The Walking Dead

Post  biakbiak on Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:51 pm

I somehow just found out this was coming back on Sunday.
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Re: The Walking Dead

Post  Matinee on Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:10 am

goddammit, Lori, try to be less of a dum-dum. thanks!

In other news, I still love Rick and think 90% (or more!) of the rest of them are idiots. Also hoping they continue mirroring book-Carl's coldness with increasing the same in show-Carl.

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Re: The Walking Dead

Post  punkysdilemma on Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:41 am

And the lesson is, girls can't drive.
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Re: The Walking Dead

Post  jensa on Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:03 pm

I am just confused as to why Lori was so intent on getting Rick back right damn now. Her and Carl were as safe as they were gonna be at the farm, and Herschel did need to be found. The only person with any sort of medical knowledge should not just be left to wander drunkenly though the zombie wastelands. Rick and Glenn were prepared to bring him back quickly, until they decided to make some new friends. Lori bitches about Rick putting himself in danger for the sake of other people and then takes off blindly to find him? That's just dumb.
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Re: The Walking Dead

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