Snarkfest 4.0
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Stars I Hate

+90
Lurker
jstilwe
The Glen
themis
year of the cat
Paris, Texas
puddingcup
Wildog27
epudom
Skyblade
Snarryfan
BloozyTunes
Morning Angel
Sheli
MLIS
Coneycat
gannetguts
Binky
Never Enough
Red Wolf
Raksha
Swarley
slmader
salamandersam
Genevieve
caerbannog
Lily Rose
curryalley
lisa
eco
dinahmoe
Evil Lincoln
mayram
particle_person
Agent Sculder
Pop'n'Fresh
katha
QueenSix
Grainne Mhaol
bbridges
bookworm
Rhilin
Matinee
katesti
dreago
mandalaya
nikita
sagitare
punzy
Carrie Ann
sen3
easybreezy
bosoxgirl
dionneshea
Jude
punkysdilemma
blooey
Unlucky Bear
Decca
sunni94
Putli Bai
TiffanyNichelle
PrincessCleo
Cutebutpsycho
laddical
Raised by wolves
The Dude
Melk
whatthedeuce
Jasmine
Poubelle
ariadne
swsa
Cynara
biakbiak
Instant Monkeys
big chicken
blixie
inversed
Kiran
ActonBell
jcpdiesel21
queenofdenile
naughty zoot
Eris Rising
Miss Moneypenny
maxell131313
Crowbridge
tothemax
mokey75
94 posters

Page 10 of 18 Previous  1 ... 6 ... 9, 10, 11 ... 14 ... 18  Next

Go down

Stars I Hate - Page 10 Empty Re: Stars I Hate

Post  dreago Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:23 am

My thoughts were: "This is like if Cassie Clare asked her fans to buy her laptops...in 2012"

My husband (who spent years as a professional musician, producer and record studio exec): "Yeah, try that with a plumber, see how well that goes for you."

Long story short, both musicians are NOT doing it for hugs and beers, are they? It is a professional gig. And, despite levels of talent or even deservingness, the thing that separates an amateur from a professional is money. This is kinda like what teachers have to put up with. Or any profession that has aspects of "vocation" or "calling" to it. The idea that if you love something, you should just do it for love. Money somehow cheapens or taints what you do. The very opposite is true. We live in a capitalistic society. The only way, sadly, to show value for something is to pay for it.

eta: Oh wow, my husband says he met her when we lived in Boston. Says she's "emotionally tone deaf."


Last edited by dreago on Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:27 am; edited 2 times in total

dreago

Posts : 97
Join date : 2011-11-01

Back to top Go down

Stars I Hate - Page 10 Empty Re: Stars I Hate

Post  Carrie Ann Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:24 am

My husband is a graphic designer, and this kind of thing happens in that industry all the time. Companies or organizations have "contests" where people create design concepts for free and then a winner is chosen. The American Institute of Graphic Arts has a policy that expressly condemns this kind of practice, as it cheapens everyone's work. That's the result of Amanda's actions - the implication is that backing musicians shouldn't expect to be paid and in the future, other acts may want to do the same thing. Often, the "winning" designer gets nothing aside from the "exposure," which is basically what Amanda Palmer is offering: "You get to play with onstage me! Wow!"

She made over a million dollars to do this tour, and could NOT do it the way she wants to without the contributions of other musicians and service-providers (catering, really???), but she won't share that million dollars with any of them because she's figured out that she doesn't have to. That is entitled bullshit and it sets a crappy precedent. I hope it fails.
Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Posts : 1232
Join date : 2011-10-23
Age : 43
Location : Minneapolis, MN

Back to top Go down

Stars I Hate - Page 10 Empty Re: Stars I Hate

Post  Matinee Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:56 am

I thought the responses to her open letter hit on some important points. First, it's not "show up and play" it's "send me some tape and we'll vet you". The implication is that it's pro volunteers she wants, not just free love and fun jamming. Second, she puts up money to pay musicians at shows she deems more important. Third, she doesn't do anything to promote the volunteers (despite her claiming that exposure is a benefit of such things, there's no real exposure to be had).

And her "charming" story on asking fans to feed her (in addition to funding the album, buying the album, and buying tickets to the shows their fundraising funded), I thought it was not at all cute. Feeding yourself and your crew is part of your expense - maybe you should have figured that when setting ticket prices, or your kickstarter budget. That's not about "art", it's about taking advantage of people who are fans of you.

Matinee

Posts : 523
Join date : 2011-10-25

Back to top Go down

Stars I Hate - Page 10 Empty Re: Stars I Hate

Post  curryalley Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:52 am

Here's my question: if the album and tour are funded by kickstarter, where does the money go when people buy the CD or tickets to the show or merch? Kickstarter can be used to provide a salary for people who aren't receiving it through traditional means or are just setting out or are working on a project where selling something may be difficult. For example: the kickstarter to fund an examination of tropes in video games via youtube makes sense because putting your project on youtube doesn't allow you to sell anything. But her fans would buy her album no matter. Her fans would buy tickets to her show no matter what. She's essentially found a way to cut out her expenses while still putting up a product for sale and therefore increasing her profit. She likely has the ability to fund her business from her revenue so now that she has few expenses, where does that money go? Is it being paid forward in some way?

curryalley

Posts : 218
Join date : 2011-10-22

Back to top Go down

Stars I Hate - Page 10 Empty Re: Stars I Hate

Post  Genevieve Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:11 am

Her financial breakdown of her kickstarter. Now taking things into your own hands as a musician is kind of a cool deal because Palmer is right about musicians not getting a lot of money from record companies. From what I understand, a fair portion of your money is made touring but even then you have to pay a lot of money toward venues, management sorts, and various expenses. (like paying your damn musicians AHEM) I don't begrudge trying to cut out much of the middlemen and create something where you have more creative control and you hopefully get more of the cash. (hello Louis CK)
She talks about wanting to pay for a good quality product (which is great, you want to give your fans something pretty awesome) and even if she isn't making bank on this, why not be decent and pay musicians in assorted cities?
Genevieve
Genevieve

Posts : 679
Join date : 2011-10-21

Back to top Go down

Stars I Hate - Page 10 Empty Re: Stars I Hate

Post  blixie Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:34 am

He tries to walk back from it after Stereogum started talking about it, except by the end of his clarification (also in the Stereogum post I linked) he's back to insulting her again. Oh, Steve. Never change.

Hee. Steve hates to agree with anyone, even himself. Seriously though I do love him saying that he values independence *especially* from an audience.

WTF was it from the Kickstarter founder about how fame is about a bunch of people caring about you a little? SERIOUSLY? She is the ULTIMATE fame whore/narcissist. I don't think it was random to say the money pledged was *faith* in her and all she does. I'm glad to know Strickler sees her as the epitome of what he built the platform for: so an established and financially well off musician could raise money so she can exploit other artists creativity and work. Nice.

I don't begrudge trying to cut out much of the middlemen and create something where you have more creative control and you hopefully get more of the cash.

David Lowery (Camper Van Beethove, Cracker, Music Business Professor) recently disputed that major labels and middle men were ever the monsters indie rock and Albini made them out to be, either in terms of creativity or the average artists ability to make a good living while signed to one. Also there are lots and lots and lots of artists who are doing the direct funded thing without being complete assholes about it like Palmer, such as former Blake Babie Juliana Hatfield.

blixie
Mod Squad

Posts : 1840
Join date : 2011-10-21

https://thesnarkening.forumotion.com

Back to top Go down

Stars I Hate - Page 10 Empty Re: Stars I Hate

Post  curryalley Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:50 am

Ok so according to the napkin math on your kickstarter this project has a lot of costs. Fine. Kickstart it then. I'm just the sort of person to wonder about the ethics of fans paying you to create a product and then paying AGAIN to purchase it. Yes, I know backers usually get a copy of whatever it is being made as part of the price of their donation but I still see a lot of grey area. I dunno. Maybe I think too much.

But it's still predatory not to pay the musicians and she still doesn't seem to acknowledge what a privileged position she's in. She says she hopes to break even or perhaps pocket $100,000 from this project - but I think it's only fair to count the kickstarter funds she used to pay off her debt as income as well. So that increases her take home salary. Yes, it's crazy expensive to ship instruments but if bands couldn't make money on tour then they wouldn't tour. Whether it's from tickets or merch or what. There's potential for income there.

She writes

jherek has done GREAT on merch the past few nights...he has decided to give part of his road-merch profits towards the musicians each night until we are at a point that we can consistently pay, since he feels like he’s getting a lot of mileage out of the players. and i’ll keep looking at my own budget and paying people as much as i can, where and when i can. we may talk to the bands about hat-passing. and we’ll figure it out as we go. we’ll grow.

MAYBE YOU SHOULD HAVE FIGURED THIS OUT BEFORE AND NOT MAKE IT UP AS YOU GO ALONG.

And my favorite thing about the kickstarter is the Donuts With a Rock Star prize where for $1,000 you can have donuts with her before a show - so long as you provide your own donuts. Girlfriend can't even put up six bucks for a dozen glazed.

curryalley

Posts : 218
Join date : 2011-10-22

Back to top Go down

Stars I Hate - Page 10 Empty Re: Stars I Hate

Post  Miss Moneypenny Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:36 pm

curryalley wrote:Girlfriend can't even put up six bucks for a dozen glazed.

OK, that cracked me up. It's really a good thing she has these devoted fans to fund her, because she's a punchline everywhere else.
Miss Moneypenny
Miss Moneypenny

Posts : 885
Join date : 2011-10-21
Location : fauxburbia, MA

http://daisyrazor.blogspot.com

Back to top Go down

Stars I Hate - Page 10 Empty Re: Stars I Hate

Post  ActonBell Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:39 pm

A few of my musician friends have said that her kickstarter seems to grossly inflate the costs of production wrt manufacturing, production, etc. so I wonder how much of that is Amanda skimming off the top of these "expenses". I don't doubt that she's making a lot more money from this album and tour than she is claiming.
ActonBell
ActonBell

Posts : 682
Join date : 2011-11-03

Back to top Go down

Stars I Hate - Page 10 Empty Re: Stars I Hate

Post  Carrie Ann Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:49 pm

Yeah, her math seems a little fuzzy on the Kickstarter page. She will make between $0 and $100,000 from the Kickstarter donations alone (by her own estimate, which...), and then will take home the profits from the tour and CD sales, minus whatever is stipulated in her contracts with her fellow (paid) musicians and management team. And I think she should get paid! I definitely think she should make at least $100K, actually. She is the draw; it's her artistic property on sale. But since all the costs of producing the CD and touring were included in the Kickstarter costs (minus the extra musicians and catering, apparently), every CD and ticket sold should be profit. Her claims that she can't afford the $35,000 it would cost to hire backing musicians in each location are laughable.
Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Posts : 1232
Join date : 2011-10-23
Age : 43
Location : Minneapolis, MN

Back to top Go down

Stars I Hate - Page 10 Empty Re: Stars I Hate

Post  Unlucky Bear Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:49 pm

I gotta say, she sounds vile and this has cemented my lack of interest in Gaiman's writing, because I can't believe her nearest and dearest haven't sat her down and told her what a scumbag she's being.
Unlucky Bear
Unlucky Bear
Official Succubus

Posts : 1036
Join date : 2011-10-21
Age : 39
Location : Suburban Chicago

Back to top Go down

Stars I Hate - Page 10 Empty Re: Stars I Hate

Post  salamandersam Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:39 pm

I'll still read Gaiman because he's a good writer, but his marrying her has brought him down in my estimation by a large factor. It just seems like pure greed and selfishness on her part. There are other musicians who've moved away from the record/studio deal and still manage to tour without expecting everyone to pay twice for product and professional musicians to play for free.

salamandersam

Posts : 217
Join date : 2011-10-22

Back to top Go down

Stars I Hate - Page 10 Empty Re: Stars I Hate

Post  Cutebutpsycho Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:56 pm

I agree with Salamandersam. I don't like how she's handling stuff, because it smacks me of the whole freelancer/volunteer thing that the journalism industry has been rife with lately.

But I still like Gaiman's works and some of the things he's done for the comic book defense league and other works.
Cutebutpsycho
Cutebutpsycho

Posts : 710
Join date : 2011-10-21

Back to top Go down

Stars I Hate - Page 10 Empty Re: Stars I Hate

Post  naughty zoot Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:04 am

I'm irked that Spotify and Facebook seem to be pushing her this morning. Add me to the throngs disappointed in Gaiman because of their relationship.
naughty zoot
naughty zoot

Posts : 1103
Join date : 2011-10-21
Location : Western Mass

Back to top Go down

Stars I Hate - Page 10 Empty Re: Stars I Hate

Post  dreago Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:16 pm

Since I am a Gaiman fangirl, I had this whole armchair psychoanalysis I was going to post about couple dynamics that would excuse him from Amanda Palmer's fuckwittery. It was complete and everything, just had to hit send. And then I saw on Twitter that he was promoting her and the "kerfuffle." The delete button never looked so good. Such disappointment.

dreago

Posts : 97
Join date : 2011-11-01

Back to top Go down

Stars I Hate - Page 10 Empty Re: Stars I Hate

Post  slmader Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:21 pm

Madonna, charming everyone as always.

slmader

Posts : 284
Join date : 2011-10-28
Age : 120
Location : Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

Back to top Go down

Stars I Hate - Page 10 Empty Re: Stars I Hate

Post  Crowbridge Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:53 pm

I love how she tries to brush off the Obama Muslim/Christian thing by saying she was being "ironic." Sure you were, Madge. Sure you were.

Crowbridge

Posts : 705
Join date : 2011-11-16
Location : California

Back to top Go down

Stars I Hate - Page 10 Empty Re: Stars I Hate

Post  Swarley Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:21 pm

If she's trying to be "edgy" she needs to just stop. It's tiresome.

Swarley

Posts : 406
Join date : 2011-10-27
Age : 123
Location : South Carolina, USA

Back to top Go down

Stars I Hate - Page 10 Empty Re: Stars I Hate

Post  whatthedeuce Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:52 pm

I've been quietly wishing for years that she'd just go away for good. She'll always have a bit of my heart because of her '80s hits and A League Of Their Own, but man, is she annoying!

whatthedeuce

Posts : 2616
Join date : 2011-10-26
Age : 39

Back to top Go down

Stars I Hate - Page 10 Empty Re: Stars I Hate

Post  Raksha Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:02 pm

Does Chris Brown even know how to do anything that's not hateable?
Raksha
Raksha

Posts : 963
Join date : 2011-10-22
Age : 42
Location : 137

Back to top Go down

Stars I Hate - Page 10 Empty Re: Stars I Hate

Post  Melk Thu Nov 01, 2012 5:46 am

It's depressing how one man can be so openly, unapologetically vile, and still have a successful career in the entertainment industry.
Melk
Melk

Posts : 154
Join date : 2011-10-27

Back to top Go down

Stars I Hate - Page 10 Empty Re: Stars I Hate

Post  inversed Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:18 am

Yeah, let's add "racist dickbag" to the "unrepentant abuser" sundae. He really is the worst celebrity in the world, isn't he?

inversed

Posts : 1300
Join date : 2011-10-27
Age : 41
Location : Newcastle, UK

Back to top Go down

Stars I Hate - Page 10 Empty Re: Stars I Hate

Post  Red Wolf Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:52 am

He really is the worst celebrity in the world, isn't he?
He hasn't raped or murdered anyone, neither is he suspected of doing so. Other than that, yeah. He's pretty well down there.

Red Wolf

Posts : 710
Join date : 2011-11-01

Back to top Go down

Stars I Hate - Page 10 Empty Re: Stars I Hate

Post  Miss Moneypenny Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:18 pm

Red Wolf wrote:
He really is the worst celebrity in the world, isn't he?
He hasn't raped or murdered anyone

...yet.
Miss Moneypenny
Miss Moneypenny

Posts : 885
Join date : 2011-10-21
Location : fauxburbia, MA

http://daisyrazor.blogspot.com

Back to top Go down

Stars I Hate - Page 10 Empty Re: Stars I Hate

Post  Matinee Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:21 pm

Miss Moneypenny wrote:
Red Wolf wrote:
He really is the worst celebrity in the world, isn't he?
He hasn't raped or murdered anyone

...yet.


...that we know of... I'd bet fair money on him being a rapist - maybe it's "judgey" of me but I wouldn't expect a man who beat up a woman that badly to be respectful of the concept of consent.

Matinee

Posts : 523
Join date : 2011-10-25

Back to top Go down

Stars I Hate - Page 10 Empty Re: Stars I Hate

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 10 of 18 Previous  1 ... 6 ... 9, 10, 11 ... 14 ... 18  Next

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum