Katie Holmes

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Post  swsa on Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:04 pm

Since this is likely to be a gossip extravaganza for the next few months at least, I figured we should find a place to dish so we don't completely take over the divorce thread.

I feel like this is the biggest and most gossiptastic story since Brad and Angie first hooked up. I know I should be sick of hearing about it, but I'm totally addicted. Candids of Katie looking super pretty, Suri as the new Gloria Vanderbilt, creepy Scientology, and fuck it, I even feel sorry for Tom and keep imagining how the only thing that could make this story better is if he ever left Scientology and how that would bring down the entire house of cards.

However, back in reality...
"We are letting 'the other side' (Katie and her team), play the media until they wear everyone out and then we'll have something to say. It's not Tom's style to do this publicly. He is really sad about what's happening."
The part about Tom not liking to do things publicly is my fave <3
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Post  PrincessCleo on Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:36 pm

Katie Holmes 'Biggest Nightmare' in Scientology History, Say Experts.

"Katie ambushed Tom Cruise and in so doing outwitted some of the most controlling people on Earth," says Karen De La Carriere, who was once one of the most powerful executives in Scientology and was married to Heber Jentzsch, Scientology's longtime president who mysteriously hasn't been seen in years. De La Carriere shocked the church by leaving in 2010 and telling secrets in anti-Miscavige blogs -- including her claim that she was kept for six months against her will at the secretive church base camp near Hemet, Calif. "I have no doubt that she’s being tailed by them. It's par for the course. But she had to have planned this very carefully, right down to using disposable cell phones and laptops to throw people off her trail. It had to have been a very cloak-and-dagger operation."

"Katie could blow Scientology wide open. If Tom’s smart, he won’t fight her on anything, even custody. He should just try to settle his way out of it. She could press this sole-custody issue and litigate it and that would be the biggest nightmare in the Church of Scientology’s history. It would be a circus they couldn’t survive."
I think that's what I adore about this whole thing. Not that it's a celebrity marriage gone bad, but that it's got massive implications for all these other people trapped in the cult. I mean, even if they don't fight her, she'll have set this "Yes, you CAN get out" precedent, and they can't tail and harass EVERYONE, you know? And the media discussing it will bring so much exposure to what a scam the whole thing is anyway--not that I've looked at a whole lot of the coverage, but I've yet to see anything that painted Katie as being in the wrong. Absolutely nothing along the lines of "omg she ran off with his child!" Even though there are "Tom Cruise can survive this!" pieces, everything about her seems to be pitched at this "Look how brave and smart she was in escaping!" level. It feels like the media has been waiting for a story big enough that the COS couldn't intimidate them out of it.
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Post  puddingcup on Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:45 pm

Go, Katie, go! I am surprisingly excited by the whole filing for divorce thing. I agree with you that it's because it goes so much beyond the one marriage.

This throwaway line was so creepy:
Heber Jentzsch, Scientology's longtime president who mysteriously hasn't been seen in years

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Post  swsa on Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:47 pm

Yes, exactly. I think she's sending a very clear message that she's not afraid to go public with everything she knows. And with all the recent, high profile defections, from Miscavige's father/stepmother, and L.Ron's granddaughter amongst others, I can only imagine that a LOT of people wouldn't mind loading Katie's team up with info for her to blast worldwide. This is also when her being a fairly normal, sheltered individual works in her favor. Because really, what can they blackmail Katie with? Anything they can nail her with will probably hurt Cruise and Scientology even WORSE.
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Post  Crowbridge on Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:01 pm

I never gave Katie much thought until I read about how crafty and smart she had to be in order to file without anyone in Tom's camp knowing. I'm sure she had people helping her, but still, that's pretty damn slick.

I'm interested to see who they will both date next. Will Tom make a bigger ass of himself than he did before? Is that even possible?

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Post  blixie on Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:05 pm

but that it's got massive implications for all these other people trapped in the cult.

I hope so, but the celebrity members have always occupied a different space than the ordinary suckers who buy in, so I'm not sure she's comparable.

I saw this marriage as mostly pretty genuine on her side, in as much as something so artificially arranged can be. I think she gave herself over completely to the theme park ride known as The Tom Cruise Experience, and by the time any of it started to weird her out was already paralyzed with fear, and still committed to making things work because she actually did "fall" for him on some level, and wanted to hold on to the fantasy she had about her life with him as a kid. But do I believe she ever bought into any of the crazy shit they told her? Hell no. For their chief tactic to work (blackmail via information revealed in auditing sessions) part of you has to believe that your mistakes and secrets are worth telling, and that they will somehow "destroy" the life you want to have. That you prize the life you have within Scientology more than the one you had outside of it.

But yes I just admire the shit out of they way she has extricated herself from the marriage, and I can see why Scientology is very very afraid of her. If it were me, to keep my kid away from all that? They must realize she is ready to go the nuclear option.

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Post  PrincessCleo on Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:12 pm

I hope so, but the celebrity members have always occupied a different space than the ordinary suckers who buy in, so I'm not sure she's comparable.
True, but it always seemed that they wanted to rope in celebrities to make it look glamorous and appealing to the masses, so hopefully Katie busting out will have a similar reverse effect.
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Post  Miss Moneypenny on Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:55 pm

I know I should be sick of hearing about it, but I'm totally addicted.

This is me exactly. I love gossip, but I haven't followed anything this slavishly in...possibly ever.

This throwaway line was so creepy:
Heber Jentzsch, Scientology's longtime president who mysteriously hasn't been seen in years

Dude, Miscavige's WIFE disappeared without a trace a few years ago. HOW IS THAT NOT SUSPICIOUS?
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Post  puddingcup on Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:18 pm

Dude, Miscavige's WIFE disappeared without a trace a few years ago

What.

I am going to quote a chunk from Lainey's column today, because it gives me so much pleasure (in spite of me trashing Lainey earlier today in the gossip columns thread - ok?):
What’s so brilliant about Katie’s playbook is how subtle it was. All she had to do was file for divorce out of the blue and demand sole custody for Suri. One phone call to PEOPLE magazine to say she’s only concerned for her daughter’s “wellbeing” and everyone else did all the rest work. Her move gave licence to the media outlets to immediately blame Scientology for whatever it was that she was getting away from.

It makes it so pleasurable to root for Katie here, because how many (celebrity-related) entities are as purely evil as the CoS? It's hardly even about Tom.

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Post  ActonBell on Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:30 pm

If you read this article about the divorce, it goes into detail about how CoS members trashed Nicole Kidman to Connor and Isabella and turned them against her. It was very sad, I hope Katie is able to extricate Suri from these awful people. I think she may have an easier time now that it seems like the entire organization is losing a lot of members.
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Post  naughty zoot on Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:44 pm

I am choosing to believe, on the basis of no evidence whatsoever and simply because it pleases me, that Nicole has been advising Katie on the sly and through the use of coded messages in interviews and paparazzi photos.
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Post  Never Enough on Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:15 pm

I'm *really* curious how Katie explained firing Isabella from her clothing line. Apparantly she did that two months ago. Clearly now it was all a part of getting Tom's "people" away from Katie, but beforehand how did Tom not get suspicious that Katie fired his daughter?

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Post  PrincessCleo on Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:55 pm

From the same article:

"Church members are required to report on one another, especially if they see any infractions to the way the church believes you should lead your life," says Rathbun. "Tom’s personal staff including his sisters are much more afraid of Miscavige than they are of Tom. They’ve reported every detail of Tom’s life to Miscavige for 15 years. Katie was always being watched. So is Tom."

Brrrrrrrr.
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Post  Luthien on Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:12 pm

Naughty Zoot, I want Mimi Rogers, Nicole Kidman, and Katie Holmes to form some sort of superheroine team (their name could be the Thirty-Threes) that secretly strikes at Scientologists throughout Hollywood, until the Co$'s credibility is destroyed and their lose their status as a "religion". Everywhere they strike, they can graffiti "33". (The whole thing with Cruise divorcing all his wives at 33 is creepy. A coincidence, sure, but also creepy).

On the more serious side, that article about what Co$ members do to you, and what they likely did to Kidman, is awful and I hope Katie stays safe and takes Tom for everything he has. Take everything from him! And let his career sink into oblivion. Maybe then he'll finally get rid of that Miscavige person, who sounds like a truly horrible human being.

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Post  swsa on Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:50 pm

How to Lose a PR Battle
It's not about Scientology! Katie LOVES Scientology!
As one well-connected Tom source put it, "She [Katie] was totally committed to Scientology. She had enthusiasm for it and would voluntarily and gladly participate in it when Tom was off shooting movies."

The source adds, "This is not a fight over religion. It's being used as a way to hurt Tom."
So, she's totally committed to it...except for that part where she has no difficulty in blaming it for her divorce and having her team attack it in the press in order to hurt Tom. Yeah, that sounds like it really means a LOT to her.
Katie's people have made it difficult for him to speak with Suri by phone, but he's talked to her every day. He has no immediate plans to see his daughter because he's leaving today or tomorrow to shoot his new movie in the Rockies.
Yes. This is JUST the soundbite you want out there in the press when you're in the midst of a custody battle.

I can't even believe these are the tidbits leaking from HIS side.
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Post  blixie on Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:13 pm

I'm a little surprised by the narrative Tom wasn't "in" the Church while with Nicole. He clearly wasn't as fanatically committed, but The Church was still a big part of his life, including the adoption of his children.

As good as things are going for Katie right now, I'm nervous her filing in New York won't stick, and they'll be drawn into the more Cruise-friendly California court system. I just want her to blow the Tom/Church wide open.

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Post  Carrie Ann on Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:06 pm

Can someone clarify the custody thing? She's filed for sole legal custody and primary physical custody. Is that sort of standard? Like, do you just go for sole and then negotiate down to joint? I think her having primary physical custody is a given, but the sole legal custody bid surprised me.
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Post  Matinee on Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:01 pm

I don't know if Mimi Rodgers gets to join the strike team, since he's the reason he's a Scientologist in the first place, right? I actually feel a bit bad for him, because he's so crazy I think he really is fully brainwashed by the cult leaders. I get the sense he's not really a power-player so much as a show-pony for Miscavige. I feel like as much as I feel bad for her getting sucked into the marriage despite being a fully functioning adult, I feel bad for him getting pulled into the "religion" in the same way.

God, I can't believe something is happening that actually is making me respect Katie Holmes. Too bad this is all after bringing a child into things. Though I'd have to say in terms of Big Nightmares for Scientology, I'd put Paul Haggis higher, since he was in so long and hasn't been shy about talking directly about the crazyness, from what I've seen.

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Post  bookworm on Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:04 pm

I always wondered if CTC tampered with her birth control at some point. I can't imagine her being that careless with a new boyfriend after being engaged to Chris Klein.
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Post  Never Enough on Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:24 pm

Carrie Ann wrote:Can someone clarify the custody thing? She's filed for sole legal custody and primary physical custody. Is that sort of standard? Like, do you just go for sole and then negotiate down to joint? I think her having primary physical custody is a given, but the sole legal custody bid surprised me.

Based on the (non-legal) articles I've read, it seems to be making a point about being in charge of Suri's religious upbringing. i.e. Not allowing Suri to go into the Sea Org, which she is just now the age they start sending people to it.

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Post  maxell131313 on Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:00 pm

So Katie has already filed in New York, right? Which makes Tom's announcement that he's "going" to file in California strange to me. I mean, you'd think he'd have been on the phone to his lawyers and whichever Scienos he's got to ask permission from and filed already. Especially if he's supposedly gung-ho on getting Suri brainwashed involved by the next level of Scientology.
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Post  Crowbridge on Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:04 pm

Matinee wrote:I actually feel a bit bad for him, because he's so crazy I think he really is fully brainwashed by the cult leaders. I get the sense he's not really a power-player so much as a show-pony for Miscavige. I feel like as much as I feel bad for her getting sucked into the marriage despite being a fully functioning adult, I feel bad for him getting pulled into the "religion" in the same way.
I also feel bad for Tom, but it's got nothing to do with Scientology. I think he's an idiot, but being blindsided with divorce papers is rough no matter who you are or how much money you have. Just a couple of weeks ago, he was gushing about Katie in an interview with People magazine, and then BAM! all this happens. I mean, I know he shouldn't have acted like such a manic little possessive elf while he was with her, but I still feel for him. Just a *leetle*.

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Post  dreago on Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:21 pm

When I was working as a social worker in NY (I worked with women in abusive relationships, including those that were not violent but involved stalking and harassment...it looks different when celebrities and money get involved but being controlling is a type of domestic violence and by the by, interfering with a woman's birth control is also a classic abuser move) there was only one option: someone got legal sole custody and the other got visitation. It could be super super liberal visitation, as in spending every other night with the second parent, but still one parent always had to file for custody first. Then visitation was arranged and/or child support was arranged at subsequent hearings. Now the parent had to make case, not airtight, but convincing, as to why it was in the child's best interest for one parent to have sole custody. And yup, being scary controlling and having people follow you, having the controlling parent have access to passports, those things will easily convince a judge to give sole custody, at least until the other party gets it together to challenge it. Granted, I never worked with a not at risk family in a divorce so for all I know it is possible to sue for joint custody, but in my 6 years in the child welfare system this never happened to any of my clients.

Edited to add: I'm not saying he did mess with her BC or abuse her, just that if he did, it would fit the pattern. Power and control, that's what it's all about. And stalking in NY can bump misdemeanor DV to a felony if I remember correctly, it's been a few years. This can get super ugly really fast if Katie's camp pursues a DV angle. Emotional abuse counts.

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Post  biakbiak on Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:33 pm

Which makes Tom's announcement that he's "going" to file in California strange to me. I mean, you'd think he'd have been on the phone to his lawyers and whichever Scienos he's got to ask permission from and filed already.

He has to deal with the NY petition first, disputing the idea that they were residents of NY as Katie is maintaining before he can file in California.
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Post  maxell131313 on Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:56 pm

Ah, okay. Thanks for the explanation!
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