The Marvel Cinematic Universe

Awesome interview with Anthony Mackie about being Falcon, with bonus DC love:

Scarlett does great representation for all the other girls, but there should be a Wonder Woman movie. I don’t care if they make 20 bucks, if there’s a movie you’re gonna lose money on, make it Wonder Woman. You know what I mean, ’cause little girls deserve that. There’s so many of these little people out here doing awful things for money in the world of being famous. And little girls see that. They should have the opposite spectrum of that to look up to.

Anthony Mackie has been generally great in his interviews. (Major fucking exception. I guess EW is trying to bury that bullshit because the video is gone but I had to watch that interview at the gym. The segue anchor was speechless.)

Can I briefly vent that the MCU is trying to make Black Widow happen? She's so boring, and I can't stand Scarlett Johansson. But apparently Marvel is making fetch happen and she's being fast tracked for a movie, and now I feel obligated to go watch it in hope of getting a She-Hulk or Captain Marvel film. (Luckily it looks like Netflix will get Misty Knight and Jessica Jones up there, but when? WHEEEN?) I am just irrationally annoyed that I have to invest in this character I don't care about, played by an actress I think is overhyped, because otherwise "female superheroes don't sell". It's like I'm back in 2005! (And at least Elektra had Typhoid Mary and Tattoo for me to be invested in).

Now I'm going to go stab myself with a toothpick because I know I'm being cranky. Winter Soldier was damn good and Gaurdians of the Galaxy looks fun, so there's that.

I like her, and I'm happy that she might get her own movie. Though I can see how she could be annoying. My own pressing question: will she have the same hairstyle in any two movies, consecutive or not? I liked the Avengers hair, out of the three so far.

I love her, so much more than I ever thought I would especially after ScarJo was cast, so I look forward to a Black Widow movie.

ETA: Yeah, Avengers hair, obviously.

Second vote for Avengers hair. Cap 2 hair was fine, but I remember thinking, "She took the time to hunt down a flatiron while she's on the lam?" after she washes her hair, because as she's drying it, you can see it getting wavy, but then at breakfast it's perfectly straight and dry. And she's in the apartment of a bachelor who keeps his hair at a buzzcut.

I can take or leave ScarJo off-screen, but I LOVE Black Widow. I'm not really that familiar with the comics, so I'm sure there are some awesome ladies that people want to see on-screen, but I like that even though she's not "super", she's still able to fight and take down bad guys.

Also, her Avengers hair is obviously her best hair.

I like Black Widow and ScarJo in the role (and wish she'd stop talking off screen as she is definitely better at acting than being a likeable person), but admit I'm hyper vigilant about Widow because she's the only female avenger (in cinema verse, anyway) and I don't want them to fuck her up.

I already feel like her characterization has been kind of...wonky...because she's mostly been used more like Coulson than her own superhero to prop up the guys in their movies (Iron Man, Captain America, and it felt like Joss was a doing a Joss-thing with her in the Avengers).

I do want a Widow movie, but I hope it's more in the vein of the Iron Man movies, which I've enjoyed a lot more than Captain America or Thor's standalones. Of course, it's a lot to ask of ScarJo to be...RDJ.

I love her tbh and would welcome her own movie. Or even a shared one with Hawkeye. Something. I think ScarJo has been surprisingly great and likable in the role. And frankly I think she totally deserves her own movie. I don't really think they are trying to make fetch happen so much as giving in to what most fans have been wanting since the Avengers (not saying that anyone who doesn't like her isn't entitled to but she has been overall very well received by the majority, so I don't think her getting a movie is trying to force people to make her happen). The character has a mysterious, complicated past they keep hinting at, she is kick ass, she clearly has rich history with a lot of characters (Fury, Hawkeye). Why not explore that?

I have adored Black Widow since I was little though.

I really like Black Window, and you are actually the first person I've seen who hasn't been a fan, Rhilin, so I don't know why you think it's forced? If anything I thought this was a grass-roots thing. Anyway, I like her because of the way she lets people underestimate her and then turns the tables. I also really enjoyed seeing a man and woman just be friends in CA2. That is not a relationship you see much in movies.

I know that the groundswell after Avengers was for an Agents of SHIELD movie that would focus on Hawkeye and Widow. Then Joss got tapped to do the TV show and Widow got put in The Winter Soldier and fan support for the two of them to get their own movie kind of ebbed, but everyone at the comic shop I work at is looking forward to it. In fact, most of the comments on Scarlett's pregnancy in my circle have been wondering if it would mean pushing back her solo film, even though she'd probably be delivered long before a script even got settled.

I ran across a very detailed and funny recap of The Winter Soldier via tumblr.

CA:TWS, as a film, was a fantastic exercise in putting genuinely decent and optimistic characters (except for Steve himself, at this point, but we can go into that later) up against a nearly ripped-from-the-headlines plot that distills a lot of this country’s cynicism and negativity, particularly in my age group. More than any of the other MCU films, I think this was aimed directly at us, the people in our late teens and twenties and early thirties who sometimes start crying on the toilet because not only will we never be able to stop working our terrible service-industry jobs, we will also never be able to make a safe and comfortable world for the kids who come after us, or take care of our parents when they need us. On top of all that, we’re in this lame dystopian surveillance society where the government hates us, military force has taken the place of diplomacy and stuff like drone warfare is something we’re supposed to just accept, like it’s not horrifying. It’s a story specifically for my generation to try and find some solidarity with.

Which is a pretty ballsy play for a movie with a main character that’s 95.

I hope that Marvel does a Black Widow movie. Since ScarJo is enjoying a lot of critical praise at the moment, she the perfect person to build a female driven superhero movie around. It will be crucial that Black Widow movie perform well; critically and financially. If it doesn't, forget seeing any superhero movies with a woman as the lead. If it underperforms, The Power That Be in Hollywood will assume that people only want to see comic book films where women are tertiary characters.

If a Black Widow movie does well, then MAYBE Marvel will consider getting more female superheroes in the mix and giving them their own films as well. It would also put tremendous pressure on DC to finally get a Wonder Woman film moving.

What was the last female superhero movie? Elektra?

Catwoman, I think. And of course, those failed because of the female lead, not because they were terrible scripts that were terribly made. EYEROLLS FOREVER.

Part of me wonders if they were terrible because they were about women and the people responsible had no idea what to do beyond skimpy outfits showcasing boobies and committed whole heartedly to terribleness.

Which is honestly something I fear about a Black Widow movie. "Look at ScarJo's ass!" being the driving plot point.

With Joss Whedon as the guy-behind-the-guy at Marvel Studios right now, I don't think that's something we have to worry about. I'm not saying he doesn't have his own blind spots and problems, but his women are definitely more than just T&A.

I haven't seen anything in her three appearances that make me think Black Widow would be poorly treated in a solo movie. I think the most exploitative use of her was probably Iron Man 2, but part of that was her getting into Tony's graces in the most efficient manner possible - Tony, as much as we love him, is a horndog. Then she suited up and kicked all kinds of ass. And I know some took issue with the way she was framed in one shot of the interrogation of Loki, but that's one shot and it wasn't like there was a lack of equal opportunity eye candy (hello, Chris Evans' ass - I'd say I didn't see you there, but you were filling up *the entire frame* at one point). There was another bit of framing during the tanker rescue at the start of The Winter Soldier, but again, one shot, and it led directly into her braining a guy with a crowbar. And this was well after Steve stood around in a too-tight t-shirt, guns a'blazing flirting with Sam.

So, I'm not expecting a Black Widow solo movie to be completely free of unnecessary sexy shots, but I feel that as a whole her character has been handled well and I see no reason to worry that they'll change.

Honestly, at this point, I think the only thing holding back a Black Widow movie is that Marvel may be waiting to see how Lucy does. Which I don't think is entirely fair - if that movie flops, it'll be because it's a Luc Besson movie, and cult-popularity of The Fifth Element aside, he's never been a very lucrative director.

Joss Whedon gets a lot of credit, but from what I understand the person actually that keeps everything in check is Kevin Feige (Joss Whedon of course gets a say, but from some recent interviews I've read, including by him, its Feige that has the role people think he has). And I feel like he has done a good job so far so I wouldn't doubt him. I also have been pleased with almost all of the female characters in the Marvel universe. I will full out say I loved Jane Foster and her science (I know that's unpopular in some circles but she delighted me). I am a huge fan of Pepper Potts and Peggy Carter. My only issue has been that none of them have gotten their own film.

What was wrong with Jane Foster? I thought she was delightful, myself. She was smart, she told Thor off when he was acting like a twit, and she made plans and followed through with them either by herself or with her friends.

Plus she got to make out with Thor. Jane Foster rulz!!

Feige's definitely the overall showrunner of the whole thing, so I may have overstated Joss' involvement - but he's definitely the guy who shepherded how the Phase Two movies will impact Age of Ultron and will continue to do so through Phase Three unless he declines to direct Avengers 3: The Infinity Civil War Gauntlet or whatever it's called. To that end, I don't think he or Feige would let through a script that would damage the Black Widow character.

And Jane is my favorite. She gets to hang out with Thor and Darcy! And play with physics gizmos. And she's Natalie Portman - and reminded me that Natalie Portman can act!

I'm not sure why it took until this thread for me to realize that one of the reasons I'm so attached to the Avengers movie properties is that they feature interesting, dynamic female characters. People who feel real, like they have their own inner lives, and exist outside of just being the male superhero's love interest. I mean, in Thor, I would argue that Jane Foster is the main character. Maybe that's just my perspective because I identify with her. And then there's Darcy and Friga, Pepper Potts and Natasha, Peggy Carter, Maria Hill. (It's too bad I don't feel the same about Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.)

I have NO idea why people dislike Jane Foster. They just do. TBF a lot seem to be really invested in Thor/Sif which is the canon otp, but I've always prefered the Jane/Thor dynamic, so I may be biased. But I adore her. She also reacts to Thor the way I would.

I don't dislike the character, but I think Natalie Portman was miscast. I'd prefer a...spunkier?... actress. Also, in the first movie, she had like zero reasons to get with him aside from him looking like Chris Hemsworth (which is compelling, I admit).

I do like the other Marvel women better - Pepper is the ONLY role I've ever liked Paltrow in. I thought Cap 2 was missing something without Peggy's character (SO MAD they didn't somehow figure out how to keep her). Natasha is a different kind of presence and I have to admit I briefly thought that Cap 2 would be better if she was the main character.

I guess I'm so used to women being used as T&A I'm pre-emptively hyper critical. Hell, I thought the Star Trek reboot was doing well gender wise...then they made In To Darkness and now I am convinced the Star Wars sequels by J.J. Abrams are gonna be Leia's granddaughter (or whatever) losing her clothes and starting fights with her boyfriend in the workplace. (I rewatched this yesterday and have some bitterness).

So, yes, I would like a Black Widow movie, provided it's good.

Finally got a chance to see it, and

Spoiler:

It just occurred to me that between the Phase II movies and AoS, Hawkeye is the only Avengers character that we didn't get some sort of check-in with post-Avengers.