Glee

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Re: Glee

Post  mrinsouciance on Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:04 pm

Maybe the hockey dood will end up winning the election.

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Re: Glee

Post  queenofdenile on Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:30 pm

And he should have said he wanted to ban slushies from the school also since all of the Gleeks have had them tossed in their face.

That would make too much sense for this show.

I will say that if every week had performances as fun as "Hot for Teacher" and "Hit Me With Your Best Shot/One Way or Another," I'd go back to watching the show fo' real, because the first one was hilarious, and the second is the kind of earworm I like to have in my head all day.

I would also be remiss if I didn't mention that Rachel/Lea looked really lovely with that polka-dot dress and her bangs swept to the side with that low ponytail during the You and I mashup. More of that style and hair, please.

Maybe you don't earn basic human rights by being nice, but you do lose them by disrespecting others' rights. Hence the whole concept of the justice system.

If the justice system were at play, Santana would get detention or some kind of punishment for throwing a ball in a leprechaun's face. Or she would get reprimanded/detention/expelled for the kind of abuse she inflicts on everyone around her. Being outed against her will is not the justice system at work, or a fair punishment for her crime. The kind of backlash she will likely suffer from this outing is completely unrelated to the bullying she inflicts on other people.

To compare to another character: I hate Karofsky, I hate that the show whitewashed what he did to Kurt and never actually acknowledged it as the sexual harassment that it was, and I wish he had received some - ANY - consequence for it. I would not consider, say, an unwanted outing or anti-gay harassment a fit punishment for his crime. Karofsky doesn't lose his right to personal safety because he threatened someone else's (no matter how schadenalicious I would personally find it).
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Re: Glee

Post  dionneshea on Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:08 am

If the justice system were at play, Santana would get detention or some kind of punishment for throwing a ball in a leprechaun's face. Or she would get reprimanded/detention/expelled for the kind of abuse she inflicts on everyone around her. Being outed against her will is not the justice system at work, or a fair punishment for her crime. The kind of backlash she will likely suffer from this outing is completely unrelated to the bullying she inflicts on other people.
I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I wasn't saying at all that her getting outed was justice for all the bullying she does (in fact I said the opposite at a couple of different points). I just meant that there are consequences when you don't respect someone's rights and that Santana has never (and probably will never) faced any of those consequences. Which is why she is far less sympathetic in this situation than she might otherwise have been. And I don't know how intentional that was on the part of the writers. I mean, there was the potential of reprisal today, but that was just swept under the rug. And honestly, when Finn was talking to her about not wanting her to commit suicide because of how she keeps everything bottled up, I was thinking, I'd be more concerned with the kids she might have driven to that extreme with all her bullying.

I really loved the music tonight. Like, I enjoyed ALL of the songs a lot. It was the first time I've enjoyed a Puck song unreservedly, I actually really liked the Kurt/Blaine duet, i enjoyed "Jolene", I loved "I Kissed a Girl", I thought "Girls Just Want to Have Fun" was a weird arrangement, but Cory did a good job with it, and "Constant Craving" was awesome.

The Puck/Shelby/Quinn storyline was a bit rough. Rough to watch, I mean. I just find the whole Puck/Shelby thing so squicky. Mostly for the reasons that Puck said. She's supposed to be this awesome, strong woman, and she's bedding a teenager. No, just... no. I did like Puck calling Quinn out on all of her crazy. I'm glad someone pointed out to her that she was acting insane.

I kept forgetting about the election storyline until we were in an actual scene about it, so, I'm not sorry that it's over now. I don't see the point of taking Rachel out of Sectionals. She didn't sing at them last year and they still won. But I am very excited about next week's promo. White Chocolate indeed.
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Re: Glee

Post  queenofdenile on Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:28 am

And honestly, when Finn was talking to her about not wanting her to commit suicide because of how she keeps everything bottled up, I was thinking, I'd be more concerned with the kids she might have driven to that extreme with all her bullying.

Fair enough. I think it was the specific wording of the "justice system" analogy that threw me, but what you said makes total sense. I just don't know how worked up I'm supposed to get about Santana's bullying - or the hypothetical bullying OF Santana - given that the show changes its mind every five seconds about which bullying we're supposed to take seriously and which bullying is supposed to be comic. But, as Karofsky is honestly upsetting for me to watch, I can see why Santana would be equally upsetting for someone else to watch - or if not upsetting, just plain unsympathetic.

Didn't watch the ep but listened to the songs, and it just figures that the only song I unreservedly HATE is the biggest earworm that gets stuck in my head for days. Maybe it was better in context, but I hate in principle the idea of an actual lesbian singing a song that fetishizes lesbianism as something for straight dudes to get erections over. BOOOO. However, I have been listening to "Jolene" and "Constant Craving" and "Perfect" quite a lot.

Next week I might actually watch, because I could have sworn that I heard TINA'S voice in that promo, and if they're actually LETTING JENNA SING, I have to tune in, because that shit's about as rare as an eclipse. Also, the image of teeny tiny Darren yelling up at lumbering hulk Cory made me laugh very hard.
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Re: Glee

Post  RiverThames on Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:29 am

I'm going to point out this show hasn't had an actual honest-to-goodness Santana/Brittany Kiss, and you'd think that's how they'd end "I Kissed A Girl". But no.
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Re: Glee

Post  SNeaker on Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:50 am

That was the most horrifying, offensive, sexist, character-assassinating drivel I've ever seen in my life.

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Re: Glee

Post  queenofdenile on Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:52 am

I'm going to point out this show hasn't had an actual honest-to-goodness Santana/Brittany Kiss, and you'd think that's how they'd end "I Kissed A Girl". But no.

I don't understand this show's relationship with the censors. They have an entire song about fetishizing girl-on-girl kissing for the male gaze, but they can't end it with two girls in a relationship kissing each other for their own pleasure. But they've had several boy-boy kisses on the show, which has generally been seen as even more taboo. BUT they have this weird dynamic with Kurt and Blaine, as in they'll have episodes with them kissing, touching, being very physically affectionate, followed by episodes where they don't even appear in the same frame together, much less sit next to each other in the choir room.

It's weird.
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Re: Glee

Post  curryalley on Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:22 pm

I can't imagine why Puck would tell Quinn about Shelby, not long after pointing out just how messed up she really is. No good can come of this.

I liked the songs much better this week, especially I'm the Only One and Girls Just Wanna Have Fun. Overall, this week was better than last week but I wish the show would remember it's supposed to be funny.

And now I feel like a bitter anti-fan. Sigh.

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Re: Glee

Post  RiverThames on Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:16 pm

SNeaker wrote:That was the most horrifying, offensive, sexist, character-assassinating drivel I've ever seen in my life.

Given the extreme nature of your claim, I'm going to ask you to expand upon your thesis points.
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Re: Glee

Post  Eris Rising on Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:14 pm

What I suspect the message was: At a time when a friend is being outed, it is necessary to surround him or her with love, affection, and support, and to remind him or her that he or she is loved.

What came across: The best way to deal with someone being outed is for their teachers and friends to make them the focus of the class for the week, until they deal with the experience on the terms that you suggest rather than their own, and then to end it with an ode to bisexual experimentation, and a performance suggestive of a Girls Gone Wild video.
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Re: Glee

Post  SNeaker on Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:57 pm

Given the extreme nature of your claim, I'm going to ask you to expand upon your thesis points.
Are you sure about that? Because I could probably go on for pages about Puck/Shelby alone, and I don't get the sense the posters here are interested in reading my ranting. :) I haven't even been able to get past my blinding rage over the treatment of Shelby and Quinn to even start thinking about Santana, Bieste, or Rachel.

If you want a good rundown on some of the sexism in this episode, you can read this fabulous post from Genu at TWoP.

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Re: Glee

Post  TiffanyNichelle on Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:31 pm

I was annoyed and grossed out by the Santana storyline, though part of me kind of liked the talk with her and Finn by the lockers where he worried that she might harm herself, even though the rest of it was just so wrong.

I didn't get too wigged out by Shelby/Puck hooking up. I was more angry that he probably told a very unstable Quinn about it.

I hated that the show couldn't just have Kurt lose the election, which isn't really a horrible thing and I still don't understand how that one thing is what would have gotten him into NYADA. Oh no he had to lose the election and be seen as poor Kurt and they needed to throw in a bad guy to put the blame on. The blame couldn't go to one of the two popular kids who were an obvious lock to win, so let's toss it on Rachel. Whatever.

No, the thing that pissed me off the most was seeing Beiste beg a man to love her. What the fuck was that?
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Re: Glee

Post  RiverThames on Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:00 pm

SNeaker wrote:
Given the extreme nature of your claim, I'm going to ask you to expand upon your thesis points.
Are you sure about that? Because I could probably go on for pages about Puck/Shelby alone, and I don't get the sense the posters here are interested in reading my ranting. :)

Hey, I've been on the same boards as you for, like, a decade. Would ask for it if I didn't want you to bring it. ;)

(Hell, you could probably give a thousand words on just Puck's hair this episode...)
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Re: Glee

Post  queenofdenile on Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:48 am

What I suspect the message was: At a time when a friend is being outed, it is necessary to surround him or her with love, affection, and support, and to remind him or her that he or she is loved.

What came across: The best way to deal with someone being outed is for their teachers and friends to make them the focus of the class for the week, until they deal with the experience on the terms that you suggest rather than their own, and then to end it with an ode to bisexual experimentation, and a performance suggestive of a Girls Gone Wild video.

This show could make up the entire entry of Unfortunate Implications at TV Tropes.

I've definitely seen more offensive programs than Glee, but I'm not sure I've seen such a consistently offensive show that is purported to be, and presents itself as, a "good message" show. Which isn't to say those programs don't exist - I just haven't seen them.

I must say, though, that I quite enjoy Santana's WTF facial expressions when Blaine gets in her face and sings. The show's never going to make them BFFs like I wanted, but any interaction is going to amuse me.
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Re: Glee

Post  SNeaker on Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:58 pm

(Hell, you could probably give a thousand words on just Puck's hair this episode...)
HE CUT IT!!1!! (At least I think so. The AV Club's rant in their review about his hair was priceless.)
Hey, I've been on the same boards as you for, like, a decade. Would ask for it if I didn't want you to bring it. ;)
Fine, but remember you asked for it. :)

Let's start with Shelby, since I think she got the worst assassination of them all. Here we had a smart, mature, capable woman. Awesome Glee coach. Great, loving mother to her baby. But lonely. She wants someone to have a family and share her daughter with. Into her life comes the child's biological father, who loves Beth, wants a family, and wants her. But he's a student, in many ways still a child, and she could lose everything. So what makes this strong woman finally succumb? Is it in an intense moment of heightened feelings because their child is in danger and they fall into bed for comfort, only for her to wake up in the morning and realize the horror of what she's done and the risk she's taken?

Er, no. What happened was that she was so distraught over Beth getting a boo boo on her lip that she could barely function and had to call a boy out of class to come take care of her, and then was so impressed with his manly display of chest-pounding (saving that helpless little lady like a cowboy) that she decided a quick fuck was in order. She's just a weak woman, and he was so sexy telling off that doctor.

I was in such a state of shock at the abrupt and jarring cut to them that I couldn't even register what was happening. It didn't make any sense, especially given that Shelby looked genuinely pissed during Puck's song. Snuggling in the hospital straight to her coyly stroking his leg post-fully-dressed-coitus? After all that buildup in the previous episodes, it was just a wham bam? When they had that first kiss, it was this big dramatic moment, given real weight and gravity. When they had sex? Eh, blink and you miss it, and now the "affair" is over. Just what? Where was the impact? Where was the buildup? Where was the panic and confusion from the woman who'd just risked everything? Where was the thrill and then heartbreak from the boy who believed he'd gotten himself a family? There was a massive tonal change from the dynamic we'd seen between them of Shelby not wanting to give in but feeling affection and desire for him despite herself, and Puck being all sweet and lovesick, both of them working on misplaced feelings about Beth and their mutual desire for a family, to Shelby coming off like just another horny cougar and Puck acting like he just banged the horny cougar he's been into. The exclusion of a scene leading up to the actual sex to explain how it went down, and the completely off tone of the post-coitus, were both massive fails and made no sense given the way these characters had been behaving in previous episodes. There was a tragedy to Shelby throwing Puck out that got completely lost.

Worst of all, they've basically justified Quinn's crazy and made Shelby into a genuinely unfit mother. And you know, I was actually really invested in Shelby/Beth. Idina did such a good and natural job in all of her scenes with the baby that I had to remind myself constantly that she's an actor and that's not really her daughter. There was such a glow and warmth about her with the baby, and everything Shelby said and did indicated to me that she is Beth's true mother, that she's capable and responsible, and that Beth is her whole life. Quitting her job for something more flexible so she could spend more time with her; setting up boundaries with Quinn and Puck and telling them they have to clean up their acts before they can see Beth; talking about how it's not just about bursts of energy but a lifelong commitment, and that you come second to making sure the child is happy and safe. This was not the type of woman who would jump into bed with a student, Beth's "desperate for a family and lovesick" bio father at that, all just to scratch an itch.

And that's all it ended up being. I had thought that it would be sad when the truth came out because people would assume it was just some cheap and tawdry affair and wouldn't realize how emotionally complex it all was. But in the end, it was just cheap and tawdry. She did not succumb in a moment of human weakness out of heightened emotions and then wake up to the damage she'd done. Rather, she was just so impressed with how he waved his dick around at the hospital that she had to take it for a ride. But just a one-time thing, thanks, I'll leave your cash on the dresser. She behaved immaturely, irresponsibly, indefensibly, and also incredibly stupidly (let's not forget that she knows Quinn is looking for an excuse to find her unfit), with no motivations to justify it or make it sympathetic. And yet there was no panic at all, and now what we're left with is the idea that Quinn and Puck made a horrible decision in giving their baby to this woman, and Idina came back for her character to be built up and then utterly, irrevocably trashed. Does anyone even want her to bond with Rachel now? I had thought the whole thing would be tragic and painful and achingly sympathetic for all parties involved. I found Shelby very likable, and the relationship they were building between her and Puck to be shockingly believable, and understandable. I expected the "affair" to be the same. (I almost even shipped them!) Instead it was just gross. Both of them are gross, and I don't want either one near Rachel. Do you know what that feels like for me? Not wanting Puck near Rachel?

As for Quinn: Honestly, do I need to say more than "She was willing to have sex with Puck again, even after he insulted her, because she wanted to MAKE ANOTHER BABY?" Quinn, who talked of her regret over sleeping with him not just because it resulted in pregnancy, but because she lost a part of herself she couldn't get back, who didn't sleep with Sam or Finn, is now so disrespectful of her own body that she wants to give it up in another meaningless moment just so she can get a new baby to feel good about herself?

Oh, but then Puck made it better. All that mess of a human being with no shred of dignity left needed was some boy to tell her she's special and then snuggle her up in his big strong arms.

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Re: Glee

Post  MichiSichi on Sun Dec 04, 2011 7:15 am

SNeaker - LIKE
It sometimes feels like the show is trying so hard to have so many topics on and taboo topics at that, that it forgets what it was all about in the beginning (season 1). There isn't a woman on that show who can be seen as a good role model of strong, independent women and whenever there is one - she usually is brought down somehow.
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Re: Glee

Post  caltrask55 on Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:22 am

Can someone remind me why Rachel didn't perform?

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Re: Glee

Post  pizzagirl20 on Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:25 am

caltrask55 wrote:Can someone remind me why Rachel didn't perform?

She pulled a "Kennedy" at the election ... stuffing the ballot boxes for Kurt.
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Re: Glee

Post  Caramel Coffee on Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:27 am

I did not realise how much I missed Sam. Weird.
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Re: Glee

Post  dionneshea on Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:57 am

I once again loved all the music. Well, I could have done without "Control", which was definitely the weak spot in that medley, but I thought all the competition music was great, "Red Solo Cup" was fun, and I LOVED "We Are Young". That was one of the best group numbers in quite some time.

Mike Chang and his father made me tear up. And I really hope that Quinn and Rachel's friendship sticks this time. I truly believe that if those two combined their respective powers, they could rule the world. And I'm glad that it was Rachel and Shelby who pulled Quinn out of her crazy and not Puck or Finn or Will.

I really missed Trouty Mouth. He can sing, and he's totally hot with that haircut.

Speaking of haircuts, if someone doesn't put down that muskrat living on Mark Salling's head, I'm going to fly down to LA and do it myself. My God, is that thing distracting.

Sebastian Warbler needs to not be on this show anymore. He just gives more screentime to Blaine and I find him really, really obnoxious (Sebastian, not Blaine, though, not crazy about him, either). Oh, and speaking of Blaine, I'm really glad he and Finn buried the hatchet, but maybe he could've apologized to Sam for basically calling him a whore. Jackass.

But "We Are Young" really was just fantastic.
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Re: Glee

Post  queenofdenile on Wed Dec 07, 2011 2:09 am

I've seen a total of three clips from the episode so far - the Kurt/Blaine/Sebastian scene, "Red Solo Cup," and the Troubletones Sectionals performance - and all I can discern from them is that a) Kurt has gotten some of his snarky lines and bitchfaces back, which pleases me greatly, and b) Finn is still a smirky asshole.

Seriously, Kurt's expressions during "Red Solo Cup" were PRICELESS. He was all "What the hell is going on?" I was wondering the same thing, Kurt. Nothing against Sam, but it was just WEIRD.
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Re: Glee

Post  naughty zoot on Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:08 am

I'm so glad Sam's back. Loved his scene with Mercedes. I hope he sticks around for awhile.
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Re: Glee

Post  SNeaker on Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:51 am

Mark's hair looks better now, judging by recent onset photos, so it'll be normal after the hiatus. Just in time for me to very likely not be watching the show. I can't even believe that they built up this whole storyline between Shelby and Puck, made it understandable and believable, fooled me into thinking they gave a damn about Puck and his issues, and then...it was all just a MacGuffin to make Quinn Fucking Fabray into a Big Damn Hero, and we didn't even get a resolution between Puck and Shelby after everything that went down between them. Just Shelby shrugging it off and apparently breaking it off offscreen. Never mind that the theme of the episode totally ties into the way Puck tried to grow up too fast; playing husband to an older woman, wanting to be a Dad at 18, and referring to himself as a "family man" who felt adult around Shelby. But he gets no resolution or closure for that story, and is not in any way fucked up after bonding with the daughter he never wanted to give up, believing he could finally have the family he's always wanted, and then being cruelly rejected and dismissed by yet another woman. Nope, he's just still the same old happy Puck and none of this had any effect on him at all.

I'm so tired of these writers putting magical musical band-aids on storylines and distracting with happy music and group hugs instead of actually earning their Big Moments. It's cheap, manipulative writing.

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Re: Glee

Post  Eris Rising on Wed Dec 07, 2011 3:16 pm

From what I've seen online, the storyline didn't seem to be resonating with a number of fans, and Quinn's sudden psychotic behavior wasn't believable in context. I suspect this was a ploy of the producers to bring it to an end and press the reset button, as in "Okay, yeah, we've got the Irish kid and the Asperger's girl now, but can we otherwise pretend that the past several episodes never happened?" A part of that is too bad, since I thought that the rivalry between the two groups was excellent.
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Re: Glee

Post  queenofdenile on Wed Dec 07, 2011 3:27 pm

You mean you don't enjoy watching Quinn built up to be a hero when the last time she did something truly selfless for another person in the glee club - someone whom she hadn't already screwed over in some way - was two whole seasons ago? Come on, SNeak. Where is your forgiveness?

But seriously, Quinn's the worst. And not even the worst in the way Britta is the worst but is actually the best. She's just THE WORST.

At the same time, I can't really bring myself to praise or condemn any character's actions on this show. Their motivations and internal logic are not important to the writers, and haven't been for a very long time. Every week, it becomes less and less "I hate that the characters did that!" and more and more "I hate that the writers MADE the characters do that!"

I watched more scenes from last night's ep, and the closest thing that came to real characterization was Blaine insulting Sam when he was really mad at Finn - an irrational and mean action, but at least making sense based on what we know of Blaine. But then that was ruined when Kurt didn't even bother to go after his boyfriend after said boyfriend is visibly upset and acting poorly. They can't even get the little things right.

So yeah, I can't even be mad at the characters for anything they do anymore. They're just puppets.

Except Finn. I hate him. It's totally irrational, because it's not HIS fault that the writers decided to make him the hero of Santana's coming-out storyline, but I want to punch him every time I even see his face. It's bad, and if he and Blaine continue to share scenes together, it will get worse. I'm afraid this new Finn hatred will win out over my Darren love.

Oh, and the A.V. Club review is a thing of beauty.

But I agree with dionneshea about the awesomeness of "We Are Young." In context, it was tacked on and stupid, but it sounded absolutely amazing.
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Re: Glee

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