Game of Thrones

Corvus, there are days the lack of a "like" feature here vexes me. Today is one such day.

RiverThames wrote:

ulkis wrote:I fooled myself into thinking they would let Rickon live. Might have been a mistake to take a break from the show and then watch it again lol.

I don't see Sansa pregnant, just because what would be the point? But this is Game of Thrones so you never know.

Passage of time is always a bit wonky on this show, but-- wouldn't she already know one way or another by now?  It seems like months have passed since she escaped.

I was going to mention that too, but like you said, it's wonky, so I decided to leave that out. But yeah, that's another reason I don't think Sansa will be pregnant.

I'm gutted at losing Margaery. God, I loved her and the way she would take Cersei down. I see a lot of people rallying behind Cersei (I mean fans, not in the actual show), but nothing she's done makes me like her. I'm actively hoping either Jaime or Dany kills her good early in next season.

Poor Tommen. You were not built to rule.

I think the same might be said for Jon Snow. I LOVE Jon Snow, but I'm not sure he's supposed to be a leader. Sansa saved his ass on the battlefield, and Lyanna Mormont, First Lady of Fierceness, was the one who rallied the North to his side. He's not been terribly effective in either of those things.

(Also, Lyanna Mormont is all things fantastic. I want a show just about her, kicking asses and taking names.)

I'm glad Dany's finally on her way to Westeros with the backing of the Greyjoys, the Martells and the Tyrells. This will make things interesting. It finally feels like real forward momentum in her story.

This show has me excited about it again. Probably because they finally have an aim and an end in sight.

I think the conflict they're creating between Sansa and Jon feels contrived, and that's my only real concern about that storyline. If they're trying to set it up where she will resent Jon for accepting the King of the North title, etc., then I just don't buy that. I agree, and so did Jon, that Sansa should really be in charge up there. But she's never seemed like she wanted power, exactly. She just wanted to not be a victim anymore. I think she'd be perfectly content to have Jon nominally in charge, as long as she felt safe, and wasn't tossed to the side or used as a pawn again. My preference would be that Jon return to the Wall to fight that battle up there (with a force from the North), and Sansa would rule Winterfell at that time (and in the event of his death), and that Littlefinger would fall in a river and drown.

Or maybe I'm just getting too worried in advance because I care a lot about Jon and Sansa, and eventually the remaining Stark family members, being together and bonded. Now that we finally have two reunited, I would be really sad to see them at odds or separated again.

(Also, Lyanna Mormont 2016 #ImWithHer)

As far as the King's Landing story, I found it very compelling and affecting, but also felt a little dissatisfied. I too am somewhat sad about Margaery, especially at the potential lost. It seemed like she had some long-game vision for playing both sides of the Faith/Family angles, but...I guess not. Also, the Wildfire didn't seem to work exactly as it's been explained previously. It should have spread, right? Like...wildfire? But instead it was just sort of a contained blast. And I'm not totally convinced Tommen would jump out that window, but I can accept that he was just really overwhelmed.

As for Cersei, she's one of the only (mainly) villainous characters the show has produced whom I have enjoyed watching and even sympathized with to a certain extent. So, unlike Joffrey, Ramsey, even Littlefinger, I love her as a character, and do often root for her in the moment depending on who is in her crosshairs (so, not against Sansa, but sometimes against Margaery, tbh, though I would never have wanted her to actually kill her). But ultimately, I still root for her demise. On the balance, I was very happy about the Wildfire bomb because I would sacrifice Loras and Margaery in exchange for the deaths of all those Faith Militant assholes. But now that she's basically accomplished that, and all her children are dead, I'm rooting against her from this point on. I need Jaime to come to reality about her, and about how he's pledged his life and honor to something that is not good or true to him anymore. So that's my hope for him for next season.

I am impressed with how the show was able to balance the grim, dire and bone-chilling (Big Church Go Boom, Loras, Tommen, Shame Septa, Arya) with the fun (Oleanna, of course, and the haute monde of the North get dragged around by Lyanna Mormont) with causing severe tonal whiplash.

Noteworthy: Cersei as a Romulan Imperatrix.

But I have questions. (Aside from Varys having a teleporter - apparently the world is the size of New England.) Thrilling though it was to see Daenarys' Fleet of Badass Women (and Grey Worm, Varys, and Tyrion), who are they going to fight when they arrive? Cersei just blew up the Church Militant, Jamie got back but he didn't seem to have brought too much of the army with him, and whoever is left in King's Landing old enough bear arms can't be all that keen - they couldn't surrender fast enough. The Tyrell army just left and can't have gotten very far down the road, they could beat the fleet by just turning around. Maybe Littlefinger and his borrowed knights could show up to maintain the status quo? Just saying, that conquest might actually be anticlimactic.

My vote for who shows up to turn the tables: The Bankers of Braavos, armed to the teeth with loan documents. "Somebody owes us a lot of money. Who is it going to be?"

I thought it was a great episode, but yeah the Cersei stuff is just always gonna grate my cheese. It was good to see her torture Septa Unella who is a terrible person, and Stooge the High Septon, but she's a dumb lunatic, she doesn't even deserve the sliver of vindication she has now by sitting the throne, too bad Dany's dragon's are coming and their fire is not finite, bish.

Or maybe I'm just getting too worried in advance because I care a lot about Jon and Sansa, and eventually the remaining Stark family members, being together and bonded. Now that we finally have two reunited, I would be really sad to see them at odds or separated again.

I don't think that's where they are going with John being King of the North, while she is resentful, I think that's why we saw her clearly reject his insistence she is the rightful heir to Winterfell (in Bran's absence, with Rickon and Robb dead). I think she may yet become Lady of Winterfell/Queen in the North though since I think John will be occupied elseplace once Dany shows up and he fills her in on ice zombies winter forever.

I LOVE Jon Snow, but I'm not sure he's supposed to be a leader.

Eh, Jon was betrayed because he was perceived as a poor ruler, Dany was betrayed because she was perceived as a poor ruler. They both have issues, Dany is great at conquering, but bad at ruling, John is wiser politically, but equally ineffective. But yeah I was annoyed that D&D chose to make John look stupid (reacting emotional to Ramsay when Sansa warned him not to) and weak (allowing Lyanna to rouse the bannermen) for the last two episodes. Meh.

I am bummed about Margery,but I do think she had a long game she just had to get Loras safely out of the Faith's dungeons first. I hope Jamie's face at the end means he's over Cersei's bs, because she for sure looked like now that she has what she always wanted, she gives zero fucks about him anymore.

My brother-in-law who is gay is upset about what they did with Loras. I quote: "They made Loras declare his love for Renley a crime, he didn't fight back, he just gave up, and then they mutilated him after he swore to join their madness. I really didn't want to see any of that. I'm disappointed by the writers and even insulted as a gay man. The religious sociopaths defeated him."

I'm not even sure how to respond to him, because I totally see where he's coming from.

How many episodes are left? They are going to have to pack in a lot of shit.

I think 12, or maybe 13. But as I understand it next season's 6 or so episodes will all be around 2 hours long.

I refuse to believe Cersei is actually pregnant.

How did Sam not realize the importance of what Gilly read out to him?

Is Daenerys starting to suspect Jon's a Targaryen or is she just thinking "hot guy who gets along with my children"?

GENDRY GENDRY GENDRY GENDRY!!!!!

I was disappointed in Arya falling for Littlefinger's trap, but then I have to remember that while she's a kickass assassin and all, she's up against a master manipulator with decades more experience than she.

How did Sam not realize the importance of what Gilly read out to him?

The direction (and the actor) seemed to be making the effort to show how frustrated and distracted Sam was, and Gilly's recitation of useless trivia was the last straw. He had a foot half-out the door already, Great Events are Occurring and the Maesters are nattering. The fact that one tidbit was not useless trivia was swept away in the floodwaters of useless trivia is intended to be the Hitchcockian ticking bomb under the table, I suppose. Fine. I thought it a bit stagey.

And anyway, such information only is important if your a strict monarchist, and the zeitgeist seems to be drifting away from that. I mean. Look at them.

Arya/Littlefinger: That was also too convenient and too easily executed (for such a contained, busy space). Even given Arya's lack of experience. That being said, I hope it turns out she didn't fall for it, or at least not entirely, by not reacting as predictably as Littlefinger expects.

I liked that they actually mentioned that the last time we saw Gendry he was rowing away. Heh.

I feel like this whole season is the Cliffs Notes version of events, and it's making it really hard to feel engaged. It's like a montage more than a show. Also, I am very anti this Jon/Dany thing, though not surprised, so that makes me feel even less enthused, in general.

The abbreviations and elisions are making disbelief difficult to willingly (even charitably) suspend. The rushed character stuff is unfortuate - (The Dany/Jon taunting is just dumb - did Bran go on vacation? - and the Sansa/Arya business is disrespectful to the characters). The teleporting fleets and armies last week were bad enough, but having Jon's group trudge through vast, trackless wastes (apart from zombie bear tracks), (with vast personal conversations) only to have Gendry skip on back to the Wall like they'd forgotten their lunches, then teleporting ravens get to Dany, who mounts up in her fabulous winter dragon queen coat and moments later she and her flight fly over the vast, trackless wastes directly to Jon and Co in time to save the day. Did they pick up Gendry on the way? "Left at the glacier. No, that other glacier." It is unsupportable. It just makes it more bewildering that Dany didn't just take a day to zip up and see for herself to begin with. Better yet, fly over King's Landing, scoop up Cersie like a unappetizing sheep, and let's all go have a look. Then drop Cersie in a volcano. Sorted!

I am minded of the Lord of the Rings joke about Frodo being rescued by eagles. "What?!? I walked through Mordor and WE HAVE EAGLES?"

Yes, the time it took Gendry to run back to Eastwatch, the raven to fly to Dany, and the dragons to fly to Jon...it's just not believable. And yes, it's a silly show with magic and dragons, why is this the thing I struggle to accept? Well, because the time and struggle and risk involved with communication and travel has been a basic truth of this world all along. That's what so many plots that we invested in in the early seasons were based on. So to suddenly just discard that truth and pretend like nothing takes any time? Not okay. I don't mind skipping over the long journeys, since we saw many of them in the early seasons and it would be pointlessly repetitive unless something important happens on the way. But at least acknowledge that it DID take time, and that every journey is dangerous! But this season, this fast-forward pace is the norm, in every area. Like the relationship stuff you're talking about. How/why would anyone be rooting for Dany/Jon (incest aside!) when it's all tell, not show, and even the telling is pretty weak sauce. And Arya is no longer this stupid, and neither is Sansa, and neither is Jaime, for that matter--when the hell is the show going to catch up to the books on that one???

Ugh. Anyway. The season where Sansa was raped broke my emotional investment in this show, but then last season was really satisfying on so many fronts, and I'm a little bummed that it's taken this turn now. Oh well! They have me (and most viewers, I assume) for next season too at this point, so I guess it doesn't matter!

and the Sansa/Arya business is disrespectful to the characters

How do you mean?

I find the S/A stuff infuriating but realistic.  They're sisters but they had little in common as kids, nor were they friends, and have been separated for years with vastly different and terrible experiences in life.  I wish they would talk about their lives but I feel like they just can't, it's too much time and distance.  The only thing they have in common is loyalty to the Stark name but other than that, they're pretty much strangers.  

Really though Arya is the one that's pissing me off. She's the epitome of the old saw "when you only have a hammer, everything looks like a nail."

While I loved that Sansa turned the tables on Littlefinger, it makes everything from last episode even stupider. Just because they figured him out, it doesn't erase the fact that Arya threatened to murder her own sister. And for nothing. For her claims that Sansa betrayed Ned, when her own recollections of the day he was murdered were seriously warped. And for not supporting Jon, when that's literally all that Sansa's been doing. I liked the destination, but the journey was bullshit.

I've been seriously disappointed in the Jon/Dany stuff. I spent six seasons wishing for them to get together, only to have them not have a single spark of chemistry. And now, their relationship just seems forced and dull. Even the incest can't make it more interesting.

Has Jaime finally seen the light? God, I hope so. Though it was nice to see that Cersei isn't complete evil. She could have had both brothers murdered at any point. Thankfully, she didn't. Speaking of Tyrion, the scene with Cersei was great, but I was happiest when he, Pod, and Bronn were reunited. They are brotp.

Re: the Family Stark (which now officially does not include Jon, though still spiritually, if not genomically, a la Theon), well that was a lot of fuss for, well, not nothing, but certainly I am a bit confused. How much of the threats and squabbling of Sansa and Arya was an act just to gaslight Littlefinger? And after all that, what did the whole exercise accomplish? He was certainly caught out being manipulative, but that doesn't merit a death sentence for a lord of the realm. He was convicted based on Bran's highly suspect say-so, which I would think most everyone would find objectionable, even if they are superstitious and haven't invented 'hearsay'. Having Sansa declare 'you suck' and Arya macks him right there in the dining room seems extraordinarily rash. Did they discuss this with the entire staff? No one seemed surprised. Good think Baelish didn't have a single servant or spy or anything in the entire castle that would have heard something was up. I guess they thought strike hard, strike fast, apologize for legal shortcomings afterwards. I suppose it isn't worth dwelling on, like the teleporting ravens, armies and fleets (we've seen the map, yo) but it does seem like the writers worked backwards from a set piece and cut corners. Similarly, the whole business of Jon ahem Aemon (II?) and Dany landing in bed whilst the grand revelations about his parentage come to light. Yeah, yeah, he's boinking his aunt, it's not like they're violating the Laws of Westermark. The squik factor isn't strong enough to merit the staginess.

On the upside, the various other character interactions were terrific. Wish we'd seen a bit of Brienne and Jon, you'd think they'd have a few topics to go over. But then all Brienne time is a bonus to me. In amongst the great exchanges (Bronn and Tyrion, Brienne and Hound, Brienne and Jamie) think my favorite was Dany and Cercie: "Am I late?" "Very." (Achieved entirely with microscopic facial expressions.)

Who takes over the Vale (and those knights) now?

Technically, little Robyn is Lord of the Vale, right? He's still alive and (thankfully) off somewhere being "trained" or something. So if the Vale wants another Lord or Lady Protector, I suppose they (or Sansa) can just name one.

And yeah, given all the incest on the show--and especially given that it is a tradition among Targaryens, I didn't really get the big drama around that sex scene. Jon might be grossed out, but Dany wouldn't care, and neither would the realm at large, I don't think. But because they made it such a big deal, now I think it actually will be an issue in the end. I worry she's going to get pregnant though, given that conversation they had. I too was disappointed by their nonexistent chemistry. I never shipped J/D, but in reading the books, I just assumed things were going that way and hoped that when they met, I would be into it. Sadly...no. If they were going to go the incest route, I was way more into the chemistry between Jon and Sansa, frankly. (Also, thoughts on why Tyrion was looking so concerned, when he and everyone else had been nudge-nudge wink-winking about their connection earlier in the season?)

I also don't really understand the Sansa/Arya plan or timeline. Were they plotting together against Littlefinger all along? Did Sansa only approach Arya after that "what is the worst thing they could want" conversation? Neither option really holds together. I did hope last week that the Sansa/Arya faces scene was for show, because it seemed very over the top and not really in line with where either Sansa or Arya are now, but I would have needed to see a glimpse of Littlefinger smirking out in the corridor to accept that.

Oh, right!

Arya: So, I've been out of the politics loops. Lord of the Vale now?
Sansa: Hoo boy. Robin.
Arya: He a problem?
Bran of the White Eyes: Yes. Yikes.
Sansa: So, Ar, want to be Lady of the Vale?
Arya: I do not.
Bran: Marry him to that terror child from Bear Island.
Arya: I think forced marriages are no longer in our repertoire.
Sansa: Agreed. Hmm... Got it. Brienne! You need someone to protect. Got a new job for you!

Carrie Ann wrote:(Also, thoughts on why Tyrion was looking so concerned, when he and everyone else had been nudge-nudge wink-winking about their connection earlier in the season?)

I also don't really understand the Sansa/Arya plan or timeline. Were they plotting together against Littlefinger all along? Did Sansa only approach Arya after that "what is the worst thing they could want" conversation? Neither option really holds together. I did hope last week that the Sansa/Arya faces scene was for show, because it seemed very over the top and not really in line with where either Sansa or Arya are now, but I would have needed to see a glimpse of Littlefinger smirking out in the corridor to accept that.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/game-of-thrones-finale-director-no-romantic-jealousy-in-tyrions-reaction-to-jon-and-danys-boat-sex?source=TDB&via=FB_Page

Here's an interview with the director that explains Tyrion a bit and the Arya/Sansa stuff (doesn't really explain anything except how shoddy the writing was with the latter plot, but still, they talk about it.)

I do think Dany will be pregnant. Don't think Dany will be too bothered by the incest, but by Jon having the better claim.
I really do think Jon and Dany would have better chemistry if it weren't for the Dany wig lol. It's always distracted me.

Wow, yeah, those are pretty unsatisfying answers about Tyrion and Sansa/Arya, but the former makes the most sense. It was just so much focus on him and his reaction (again, after he and almost everyone had predicted it would happen?) that it seemed like there was something there I was missing.

Speaking of what's missing...I'm not sure what isn't working for me with Jon/Dany (other than the wig, which I also think is looking extra crunchy this season). It's not just that the story was so rushed or that I don't think Jon and Dany are an interesting personality match, because I am happy to handwave anything if I feel a spark. And of course, chemistry is subjective and tricky and hard to define or create, but I don't think Kit is bringing it at ALL. Even in the still they used in that article, he's giving nothing romantic while Emilia has the eyes turned up to 11. I'm not a fan of her acting or Dany in general, but at least I've felt chemistry from her end with other partners--including non-romantic chemistry, like with Missandei or Tyrion--but with Jon it's like a void. And on Kit's end, Jon is always kind of...uhhhh, quieter? in his emoting? But I bought his chemistry with Ygritte, and as I said before, I even felt chemistry between Jon and Sansa (including this season with the (sexy) threatening of Baelish on his way out of town). Oh well. Only a few episodes left to tolerate it and assuming it's in the books as well, maybe it'll play better there.

"Don't think Dany will be too bothered by the incest, but by Jon having the better claim. "

A thought occurs: context. To our modern* sensibilities, the strict monarchists and family bloodlines and all that is all as quaint as Olenna's wimple. But you know who cares? The dragons. Whether it's magic or genetic or both, it's a thing that exists and is as heritable as Lannister blond hair. (Or Targaryn really blond hair.) Dany can command the dragons based on her DNA/MagicDNA. She can walk through fire. The dragons recognized Jon, who apparently never had a bad encounter with an open flame his entire life. So to that culture, the squik of inbreeding (which would be less than it is today anyway), would be offset by the demonstrable dynastic benefits of DRAGONS. One considers early Egypt, who didn't even have dragons, just big graveyards, where that was the cultural norm - or perhaps more accurately 'a violation of the cultural norm that we accept because Pharoahs'.

So it could well be that when the Big Reveal finally makes it's way to Dany and Jon, he might go 'eeek' and she'd be all 'Whip out that Targaryn steel, boyo!' Raven to Cercie: the baby race is ON'.

Speaking of which: are her two remaining dragons a breeding pair?

Game Changer I'd Like to See: someone finds a crate of dragon eggs. Hopefully Yara.

*(what we hilariously like to call)

It's barely incest to Dany. Her parents were brother and sister. Aunt and nephew is nothing. I will be surprised if Jon isn't a little creeped out.

And he has WAY more chemistry with Sansa. It's actually kind of crazy how much chemistry they have. All of the sibling interactions from last season and this season between the two of them had an odd romantic undercurrent. And I don't think it was written that way. If it was, kudos to both of those actors, because it was some fine subtle work. I'm actually way more anticipatory of the scene where Jon and Sansa have it out over him bending the knee, than any future love sessions between him and Dany.

I love that the director's explanation of the Sansa/Arya storyline was basically, "Yeah, I don't know. It didn't make much sense, but I did what I could, and this is what I think happened, but it definitely wasn't explained to me at any point." There's no way to satisfactorily explain it. Either they were setting him up all along, but then there were a bunch of extra scenes of them being horrible to each other for no reason (because Littlefinger was nowhere near them in those scenes) or Sansa just figured it out recently, in which case they actually were horrible to each other and Arya's a little psychopath who threatened to murder her sister.

I am wondering, with only six episodes left, how they wrap up both the White Walker invasion and the battle for the Iron Throne in that time. At least there won't be any filler. But will it allow for all the other stuff I want to see, like Gendry and Arya reuniting, and Brienne choosing between Tormund and Jaime, and Davos and Lady Lyanna becoming a kick-ass team who take over Westeros? It better.

It's too bad that the writers didn't decide right from the beginning to write it like they were no more books, because then they could have skipped a lot of the filler in earlier seasons.

Carrie Ann, ita with everything you said.