The Walking Dead

Hershel just looked so...I don't know, shocked, moved, horrified, something, about the request. I get that that's the guy who kept his zombie wife in the barn for ages but it was still weird to me.

Yeah given Hershel's history and medical ethics, it's probably best Lori reminded him. I'm still not sure of her usefulness as a character and I feel like her pregnancy is the only thing that really gives her storyline purpose. And then I get aggravated even more. I really really don't like Lori.

But that's really my only complaint because THIS IS THE SHOW I SIGNED UP FOR! The zombie apocalypse just got real and it's about damn time. I'm glad they showed what happened to Andrea, but I agree that it was clumsily handled and tacked on. The prison is a great setting both thematically and practically, and best of all IT'S NOT A BARN.

I was almost convinced that Rick had returned to his dumb old ways, but then the machete came out and he saved his self-recrimination for afterwards. I'm not exactly sure why they're bothering to share the prison with dumb and dumber, but whatever. Who the hell spends months locked in a cafeteria while random groans and other disturbing sounds fill the hallway outside? And since when is the brain located in the abdomen? "Prison riot shit", indeed.

I loved his utter shutdown of Lori. Finally. He pretty much made it clear that he cares about her as part of the group he is responsible for, but not so much as a wife. Good for him. (My problem with Lori is not that she was sleeping with her husband's best friend--it is her behavior afterwards that I loathe. Triangling, emotional manipulation, outright bitchiness, and an unwillingness to be useful come to mind.)

Carl left the house again. And he's being an asshole to his mother. I liked how he got put down for his lack of respect, though I did appreciate his initiative.

Who the hell spends months locked in a cafeteria while random groans and other disturbing sounds fill the hallway outside?

To be fair, they were padlocked in from the outside. Getting out wasn't really an option.

True. And I suppose if all your immediate needs are being taken care of there's little reason to ruin a good thing--I just know I'd be dying of curiosity after a month or two. How often does a "prison riot" go on for more than a few days?

Rick may have smartened up enough to kill Poor Man's Machete with (heh) a machete, but I think he and Lori were SUPERdumb when it came to handling Hershel. Mouth to mouth is of questionable value under the best of circumstances (studies have shown victims might be better off with responders just continuing chest compressions without interruption) but when there's a likelihood of the victim chewing off your tongue and killing you it's just... sorry, Hersh, nice knowing you, but even your eldest daughter thinks you'd be better off letting go.

And then Rick unlocking the handcuffs before anyone bothered to test Hershel for higher cognitive processes. Nothing in Hershel's behavior in that scene struck me as "alive and lucid" anymore than it could be "dead and getting ready to strike". Keep the handcuffs on until he's formed some freaking words.

I don't mind that they left two of the prisoners alive. I'm with Gandalf on the "Don't be too quick to deal out death and judgement" thing - and while I think Rick was absolutely right to take out the prisoners he did, the other two presented no immediate danger and can be easily controlled and monitored now. Who knows... as they get to know each other, those two might prove helpful.

Yeah that whole mouth-to-mouth scene made me cringe. I can give them a pass on not knowing that compressions are the way to go these days, but good grief, Lori must have been driven by some next-level anxiety about giving birth without Hershel.... Blech.

I hope they go back to get those clean towels in the laundry room.

Regarding the mouth-to-mouth, I kind of disagree. If your blood oxygen isn't renewed, we know that hypoxia and irreversible brain damage begins in as little as ninety seconds. In civilized times, of course you just want your loved one alive, not dead, and some kind of vegetalian state is terrific, considering the alternative. You can get a home nurse, you can do tons of rehab, they may retain a little cognitive function - so why risk mouth-to mouth? But in Lori's eyes, she may think that without Herschel, the pregnancy may very well kill her; they've already discussed that it's probably got to be a c-section and Herschel's apprentice is not yet up to the job. If I were Lori, I'd also want to preserve Herschel's mind and abilities, to the point of risking a bite to keep his brain functioning. If he's a vegetable or a zombie, she could be a goner either way. That's like, the only time in the last ten or twelve episodes I thought she was actually thinking things through.

In real life, I understand that medical professionals hate to risk disease and someone vomiting into their mouths, but if one of my loved ones went down, I would hope that the responders took their quality of life into account and blew a breath or two anyway. It's a little thing, but it could be so important.

I think your point could have been made without the condescension.

Oh - sorry, there was none intended. I am a first responder, though, and we talk about the pros and cons a lot in training.

When I think about it more, it's more that that level of thinking is just about consistent with what Lori's shown us in the past. So far, hasn't really been a big-picture girl.

Okay; I just felt like your comment about being willing to accept a vegetative state was sarcastic. I understand the position; I just think risking a tongue-bite from a zombie-in-process is something that weighs more heavily than the normal "I don't want to touch lips for reasons" argument.

I don't know that Lori necessarily needs a C-section. I know that was the train of thought years ago and some doctors are being slow to let it go, but vaginal-after-cesarean is possible in many cases and should be preferred.

Of course, I don't expect any of them to know this just off hand, and certainly not to be thinking about it in the middle of a crisis.

I am perplexed by Carol's sudden medical knowledge. I get that Hershel's been teaching her, but knowing that cauterizing the stump wouldn't stop arterial bleeding seems like a bit of a stretch.

According to Talking Dead, Hershel keeps an axe in his medical kit just for the very purpose it was used for; it would make some sense that Hershel would tell Carol what to do in the event of amputation. At least, I can fansplain that away.

Sometimes it bugs me when I can see the man behind the curtain when watching television shows. The sudden need for Carol to perform practice surgery on a fresh zombie so that Glen could be conveniently absent during Hershel's crisis felt a bit clunky, but I can accept that Lori would do mouth-to-mouth in addition to chest compressions. I tend to agree with Laddical about the risk of tongue biting vs. reasons given the circumstances, but I imagine that the idea in the writer's room was to show Lori's desperation. I thought that was pretty well covered when she was begging Hershel to kill potential zombie babies, but, you know, drama.

laddical wrote:I don't mind that they left two of the prisoners alive. I'm with Gandalf on the "Don't be too quick to deal out death and judgement" thing - and while I think Rick was absolutely right to take out the prisoners he did, the other two presented no immediate danger and can be easily controlled and monitored now. Who knows... as they get to know each other, those two might prove helpful.

Of course after 3,000 years of Elronds "I saw humanity fail" shit I'm sure Gandalf is about ready to blurt out "We could have avoided this if you just pushed him in the lava when you had the chance Captain Negative!"

• Like Lori said Rick isn't malicious or ruthless. Tomas violated their bargin and Rick split some hairs.
• The other two abided by the agreement and get to live.
• The convicts are down to a much more manageable two from the previos five.
• Everyone pretty much has a clean slate so I wouldn't say they're much different than Darryl was before the outbreak
• Having someone who knows the prison could prove handy.
• After Shane I doubt Rick will indulge anyone too much.
• I can't think of a more forceful warning than hacking a guy in front of them.

So when will T Dawg get something to do?

Tomas violated their bargin and Rick split some hairs.

Awesome.

Having someone who knows the prison could prove handy.

It didn't seem to me that they were planning on teaming up with the other two. And hey if Carl can find the infirmary and get supplies without a big problem, that might not be necessary.

he sudden need for Carol to perform practice surgery on a fresh zombie so that Glen could be conveniently absent during Hershel's crisis felt a bit clunky,

I don't get this. Do you mean so that it was Rick who Herschel had the moment with instead of Glenn? I think even if Glenn had been there he would have still had that moment with Rick and I don't think Glenn not being there or being there would effect the dynamic between the two.

etb: I am an idiot who typed Carl when I meant Glenn.

I don't get this.

I was referring to Carol taking Glen away from Hershel guard duty in order to find zombie surgery material.

I am an idiot who typed Carl when I meant Glenn (I edited my post), I just don't get why having Glenn there would have made an iota of difference. I can see having Carole there might have changed things because she has some medical knowledge, but I don't get what was so anvilicious about Glen not being there.

Because Rick made Glen promise to take Hershel out at the first sign of death--if Hershel had stopped breathing on Glen's watch heads would have probably been split before Lori had a chance to risk her tongue. As soon as Carol was all "you MUST COME NOW@##@$" I knew that Hershel shit was going down.

Ah, I guess I didn't think that Glenn would react immediately in the situation as it played out. Particularly because he would have most likely had to do something to handle Lori at the same time, so while I knew something was going to happen to Herschel, I think it would have gone down the same way if he had been there.

biakbiak wrote:

Having someone who knows the prison could prove handy.

It didn't seem to me that they were planning on teaming up with the other two. And hey if Carl can find the infirmary and get supplies without a big problem, that might not be necessary.

Two words: toilet wine.

Anyway, only one stupid thing this week too. Making progress!

Quite a shift of gears from the last two bloodsoaked episodes, but I liked it. The Governor is just convincing enough that my wife, who doesn't know anything about the graphic novels, was completely caught off guard by his shooting the guardsmen. Honestly, I'm not sure it makes much sense to me, either, though I suppose I can see why he might not want to introduce too many new people into his town all at once. Evil, but understandable evil.

That giant wall of pickled heads he keeps though? That's all kinds of fucked up.

Also, I kind of understand that they wouldn't want to give him a proper name since he never had one in the source material, but you'd think he'd offer a better excuse to Andrea than, "I never tell. Never." Make up something, dude. Call yourself John Smith if you don't want to use your real name. But refusing to offer something is all kinds of red flag waving. The only thing now is to see whether Andrea's smart enough to pick up on the clear villain vibes that last exchange should have smacked her in the face with, or if she's going to be the character that carries the idiot ball this season since everyone else seems to have wised up enough to drop it.

If I wasn't already familiar with the comics I would have wondered if the Governor was

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because of the lines about his name. (Spoilered because the speculation would be spoilery for those who hadn't read the comics.)

Did he have the zombie fish room in the comics? I just remember the

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Because we, as viewers, are somewhat omniscient and therefore aware of the Governor's evil, it's easy to see why Michonne is running around with bitch-face. I can see the appeal of the town, though. It's quiet, seems safe enough, and I think Andrea misses the stability of the farm more than she would like to admit. However, if I were running around with a katana-wielding badass and her two zombie slaves for seven months and had been able to count on her all this time, I'd be more willing to hear her out.

I'm hoping they don't go down the

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I just don't like that storyline at all.

I have to admit, I liked this handling of the Governor a LOT better than the comics. Because, frankly, in the comics he was essentially, "Hi, welcome to our community, where I AM EVIL AND YOU ARE FUCKED!!!!!" It had as many shades of gray as a black hole.

laddical wrote:Quite a shift of gears from the last two bloodsoaked episodes, but I liked it. The Governor is just convincing enough that my wife, who doesn't know anything about the graphic novels, was completely caught off guard by his shooting the guardsmen. Honestly, I'm not sure it makes much sense to me, either, though I suppose I can see why he might not want to introduce too many new people into his town all at once. Evil, but understandable evil.

I think it was more about getting the weapons and eliminating other potential powers. So the same avenue as the comics but less MUAHAHAHAHAHA right away.

Also really hoping they cut the aspect of the story the xyzzy references.

So was the head tanks part of the comics? I heard he had

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I must say I've liked all three episodes this season and knock wood it represents the improvement we were all hoping for.