Stars I Hate

Crowbridge wrote:I hate Taylor Swift.

I hate the way a huge chunk of her identity is built around the kind of girl she isn't: "I don't party! I'm not like all those bimbo starlets who get drunk and flash their girl parts in limos!" Big fuckin' deal, Taylor- MOST people don't do that. Girls like Paris Hilton and Lindsay Lohan are the exception, not the rule. Get over yourself.

I also hate the way she is praised for "honest" songwriting when all she does is whine about cheerleader types and take shots at her ex-boyfriends. She writes her own songs? Give her a cookie. Too bad they sound every bit as lame and formulaic as the next pop star's.

One more thing, and it's minor, but it bugs: I remember reading an old magazine interview where she said people thought she dressed like a "freak" in high school because she wore sundresses and cowboy boots. What? You grew up "country", but you were a freak for dressing that way? MY ASS. She has no right to complain about being a freak when she has always been blonde, perky, and cute. She could have worn a potato sack and still would have been the envy of every girl in school, so she can STFU about not feeling pretty.

Okay, I feel better. Apologies to anyone who actually likes Taylor, but I just can't stand the girl.

I tip my hat to you, kind stranger.

I'd like to add that I don't like the fact that she gets treated like she's beyond reproach because of her goody two-shoes image (despite the cheap shots she's been taking of late, or arguably, has always taken).

There have been plenty of singer-songwriters out there her age who were able to write more mature songs, or at least songs that weren't so twee and cutesy and could find other things to sing about than rain, fairy tales and puppy love.

I do think it was intentional -- the Onion often uses satire in a pretty angry way to make a point, and often it isn't meant to be funny so much as scorching. For another example on similar subject matter, see this one on the Penn State situation: Nation's 10-Year-Old Boys: 'If You See Someone Raping Us, Please Call The Police'. Or for a very well-known one (that really has not an ounce of humor in it, and never fails to make me cry), there is their post-9/11 piece God Angrily Clarifies 'Don't Kill' Rule. These aren't like the ones about Biden washing his Trans Am in the White House driveway (to which I say: hee). Its being as graphic/in-your-face as it is strengthens their point that rape is in fact not funny, and juxtaposing (sorry: using the word "juxtaposing" automatically takes a post to pretentiousness town, I realize) Tosh's imagined jokey attitude about it makes the argument as strongly as anything that his words were severely off-base.

I thought Lindy West's post about it was quite good. I think this is my favorite quote:

This fetishization of not censoring yourself, of being an "equal-opportunity offender," is bizarre and bad for comedy. When did "not censoring yourself" become a good thing? We censor ourselves all the time, because we are not entitled, sociopathic fucks.

Something I often think many people (mostly ones I see on reality TV, not that I encounter in my daily life, thank goodness) would do well to remember.

Crowbridge wrote:I hate Taylor Swift.

I hate the way a huge chunk of her identity is built around the kind of girl she isn't: "I don't party! I'm not like all those bimbo starlets who get drunk and flash their girl parts in limos!" Big fuckin' deal, Taylor- MOST people don't do that. Girls like Paris Hilton and Lindsay Lohan are the exception, not the rule. Get over yourself.

I also hate the way she is praised for "honest" songwriting when all she does is whine about cheerleader types and take shots at her ex-boyfriends. She writes her own songs? Give her a cookie. Too bad they sound every bit as lame and formulaic as the next pop star's.

Applause! That pretty much says it all about her. I can't stand her either. I hate that she's in her early 20s and yet her songs clearly come from her freshman year diary. "Mean"? Is one of the dumbest songs ever for a young adult to sing. The lyrics sound like something Willow Smith would be singing, not someone over 18.

Because guys need to stand up to Tosh and Rape Culture too: Let's pretend one in five males were castrated and we made jokes about it! Since the very beginning when Tosh.0 came on the air, I've said to my husband, "there is a man who both hates and fears vaginas." And now there is proof.

TiffanyNichelle wrote: I hate that she's in her early 20s and yet her songs clearly come from her freshman year diary. "Mean"? Is one of the dumbest songs ever for a young adult to sing. The lyrics sound like something Willow Smith would be singing, not someone over 18.

She's 22 now, and she's fucked John Mayer, just like every other woman in Hollywood. She can drop the innocent act.

Crowbridge wrote:One more thing, and it's minor, but it bugs: I remember reading an old magazine interview where she said people thought she dressed like a "freak" in high school because she wore sundresses and cowboy boots. What? You grew up "country", but you were a freak for dressing that way? MY ASS. She has no right to complain about being a freak when she has always been blonde, perky, and cute. She could have worn a potato sack and still would have been the envy of every girl in school, so she can STFU about not feeling pretty.

As I think I've said before, she grew up basically in my area/town, which is filled with doctors and lawyers and corporate types, and is as far from "country" as you can get. (I'm still trying to figure out where her "Christmas tree farm" is.) Anyway, I didn't know her back then, but the daughter of a friend of mine went to junior high school with her and was in chorus-type things with her. My friend describes Taylor as very tall, thin and gawky back then. Not pretty at all (and my friend is one of those people who seems to think everyone is beautiful). She also couldn't sing very well, but you all have ears, so...yeah. The school she's talking about is kind of elitist, to be honest, and I have no doubts she probably was mocked and made fun of, but SO WAS EVERYONE ELSE except for the usual mean girl crowd. It's junior high school, it sucks, you live through it somehow, and you go on with your life. You don't keep endlessly writing songs about how everyone wronged you when you were 15. I mean, Boo Freakin' Hoo, Swift. Get over it already.

Anyway, I remember early articles in the local newspaper talking about Taylor Swift, how her family had moved with her down to Nashville to pursue fame and fortune. I recall rolling my eyes, thinking, "Yeah, you and everyone else, girlie." It wasn't the first time I was wrong (Ricky Martin playing a big pop star on GH, and me going, "YEAH RIGHT...like YOU would be a star!" comes to mind, just before he, you know, BECAME A BIG STAR), and it won't be the last. But I still don't get the hype, the awards, the accolades, the popularity, which seem WAY out of proportion to what she is and does. It's just weird that she comes from this area and instead of being proud of that fact, I have all these ambivalent feelings about it. I don't hate her, but I'm definitely not a fan.

Instant Monkeys wrote:
I thought Lindy West's post about it was quite good. I think this is my favorite quote:

This fetishization of not censoring yourself, of being an "equal-opportunity offender," is bizarre and bad for comedy. When did "not censoring yourself" become a good thing? We censor ourselves all the time, because we are not entitled, sociopathic fucks.

Something I often think many people (mostly ones I see on reality TV, not that I encounter in my daily life, thank goodness) would do well to remember.

It's like scatalogical humor. I don't have a problem with it in theory, but it should actually be funny and not just using farts instead of jokes.

Probably why Andrew Dice Clay had such a short shelf life.

As for castration jokes being a turnabout, I'd doubt it since nut shots are a staple of comedy as family friendly as AFV.

It's not a perfect analogy, but he's one of the few guys who piped up and tried to get people to see beyond their male privilege. I give him props for that since its rare that the public is encouraged to look at things from a different perspective. Don't read the comments though. The derailing, hair splitting and straw men arguments make one weep for humanity.

Jude wrote:As I think I've said before, she grew up basically in my area/town, which is filled with doctors and lawyers and corporate types, and is as far from "country" as you can get. (I'm still trying to figure out where her "Christmas tree farm" is.) Anyway, I didn't know her back then, but the daughter of a friend of mine went to junior high school with her and was in chorus-type things with her. My friend describes Taylor as very tall, thin and gawky back then. Not pretty at all (and my friend is one of those people who seems to think everyone is beautiful). She also couldn't sing very well, but you all have ears, so...yeah. The school she's talking about is kind of elitist, to be honest, and I have no doubts she probably was mocked and made fun of, but SO WAS EVERYONE ELSE except for the usual mean girl crowd. It's junior high school, it sucks, you live through it somehow, and you go on with your life. You don't keep endlessly writing songs about how everyone wronged you when you were 15. I mean, Boo Freakin' Hoo, Swift. Get over it already.

Well, that makes a bit more sense, then. I just rolled my eyes at the fact that she labeled herself a "freak", since this seems to be the popular thing for celebrities to do when they talk about their high school days. It's annoying, and it's hardly ever true. It reminds me of Megan Fox saying she was an outcast in middle school, when there are pictures of her as a cute cheerleader, hanging with her cheerleader buddies. Bitches, please.

Reading back through the "good" quotes thread, I read this:

“All I can say is that Scarlett gets to do a lot more than be hot in “Avengers”. It’s definitely dispiriting to have a woman play an heroic role and then be reduced to body parts by fan commentary, but that can only change slowly. And is.”

- Joss Whedon

And I guess I'm kind of taken aback. I never thought of Joss Whedon as much of a feminist, but this quote fills me with searing rage.

Half the shots in that movie with Black Widow were practically framed around ScarJo's ass. Around half the time the movie was over, I couldn't un-see it. And I almost felt it glaring at me. Yes, someone's ass was glaring at me. Like it was Joss Whedon mocking me, saying "I'm a grand feminist, who still has room for fanservice!"

Or Maria Hill? A chance to make an effective "agent" character, but instead decides he'd rather cast a pet actor and stick her in wedge heels the entire time. Clearly, a woman character so throwaway that it's more about the actress than it is about getting the right actor to bring some presence to the part.

And worst offense? Pepper Potts. In the first two movies, it's well established that she's Tony's equal. The scene with Tony and Pepper and Tony's new heart was probably one of the most sweet love scenes I've seen in a movie in the last ten years. She was the badass who thanklessly carted out the bimboes and did her work as CEO, and was the trusted advisor that kept Tony's genius in check, and not once got moony-eyed over him.

So what is she in the movie? A bimbo, in cutoffs, coyly playing with Agent Coulson, saying "oh, but I'm supposed to know that". BS. She's Tony's right hand. She's supposed to know everything he does because she keeps him in line. Pepper Potts knows how to bring the business. And Coulson knows that just as well as Stark does.

So, Joss Whedon a feminist? My ass.

Huh. I've not seen the Iron Man movies, only The Avengers, but Pepper Potts didn't come off as a "bimbo" to me in that movie. I thought she came off as strong and self-assured in her intelligence and relationship with Tony Stark. Even despite the cutoffs.

Can't say I particularly noticed Scarlett's ass when she was outwitting the God of Lies, kicking Hawkeye's ass, launching herself off of Captain America's shield, and saving the world by closing the portal to another dimension.

Cap's ass, on the other hand, not only distracted my mightily, it was actually IN 3D the first time we saw it.

So I'ma call equal opportunity ass-fanservice there.

queenofdenile wrote:Huh. I've not seen the Iron Man movies, only The Avengers, but Pepper Potts didn't come off as a "bimbo" to me in that movie. I thought she came off as strong and self-assured in her intelligence and relationship with Tony Stark. Even despite the cutoffs.

The "bimbo" thing comes from her being flip and not-businesslike when Coulson comes to Stark with business matters. Tony's a genius, but he doesn't have Pepper's brain for business.

I've worked with high-power businesswomen who never in a million years would play the "I'm not supposed to know that" game, particularly in her position (I've been mentored by said businesswomen who've damn near bit my head off for being even a little bit flirty in even social situations where colleagues were present; the right answer is: be inquisitive, but don't play dumb). And you don't become CEO of a corporation by playing dumb in any situation, on or off-hours, particularly since she's responsible for answering to the company's shareholders. Not only is she supposed to know everything he does, business-wise, she'd damn well better demand to know it if he's not telling her something. She'd better be able to weigh in if the company's main innovator is going to take on a risky venture that may very well get him killed (which it almost did).

It just struck me as silly and childish for someone of her position. I know it's just supposed to be a "comic book" movie that I'm not supposed to take too seriously, but for a guy who's a self-proclaimed feminist and who's supposedly 'brilliant' at character writing, I found that pretty insulting.

(Disclaimer: most of Whedon's characters rarely hold water for me on a psychological level - it's why I have the hardest time accepting that people think he's 'brilliant')

It just makes me think that Whedon has not a clue how to write actual adult women (or adult men, for that matter).

Now, I'm not a huge fan of Joss either -- he has moments I like, but nothing that I love. I've never seen Buffy, Angel or any of his other stuff. And I've had friends force me to watch Firefly, which again, moments I liked, but didn't love.

I don't know how Pepper acts in the boardroom or when she's in "work" mode. The patter she had in the movies was similar to what Tony and she had in the previous movies. She also had that warmer tone with Coulson by the end of IM One (or at least in my eyes).

My view has always been that Pepper and Tony have a great deal of personal/professional blurring of the lines, judging by the nature of their dialogue and this was even before they became involved in a personal level. The scenes with her were along those lines to me.

As for the shorts, she was basically off the clock. CEOs don't wear business suits all the time, so wearing shorts makes sense to me, especially in summer. Pepper is also a woman who values fashion and looking good (judging by the suits she also wears), so I wouldn't be surprised if she wore shorts that fit her perfectly and made her legs look good (which were probably purchased at GOOP).

Admittedly it's also been awhile since I saw the movie, so I can't remember the scenes precisely.

Pepper and Coulson are friends, is what I took from that scene. Business associates, yes, but also friends, which is why she's the one who knows about the cellist. And Pepper's off-duty, drinking champagne with her boyfriend, in the evening, when he shows up. It was okay with me that she wasn't straight-up business in that situation, and I don't think it undermines her as a badass businesswoman.

Especially since in the previous movies, you see how she's a professional and damn good at her job. If she had been wearing that at the office or during the previous movies (when her relationship with Tony is on the more professional end), then I'd be more annoyed.

I never took "I'm not supposed to know that" as her playing dumb. She's not supposed to know that because it's classified and Tony broke into the files and NEITHER of them are supposed to know about it.

I thought Maria Hill was well handled - my memory of her entire sequence at the start was the basic message of "FYI, y'all, Maria Hill will keep coming at you with everything, so watch out". And I thought Cobie Smulders did a good job, and think terming her as a "pet" of his as if that's the only reason she'd be considered for such a role is unnecessarily diminishing of her. (also, while he did favour her for Wonder Woman, which I think would have been great, have they ever even worked together before?)

In terms of Pepper and Coulson interacting, my feeling of that whole scene being so casual and friendly was to give Coulson some heart and quick characterization to make later events more meaningful to a potentially naive audience.

On ass shots, I only remember one of ScarJo, in a scene where the idea of her being characterized stereotypically was being deliberately turned on its head. I appreciated how central Black Widow was to the entire story - she was hardly just some add-in T&A. I do distinctly remember a Cap ass shot as well.

Miss Moneypenny wrote:Can't say I particularly noticed Scarlett's ass when she was outwitting the God of Lies, kicking Hawkeye's ass, launching herself off of Captain America's shield, and saving the world by closing the portal to another dimension.

Cap's ass, on the other hand, not only distracted my mightily, it was actually IN 3D the first time we saw it.

So I'ma call equal opportunity ass-fanservice there.

Doesn't absolve him. Doing it for both sexes doesn't make it right that he did it for either sex.

Pepper and Coulson are friends, is what I took from that scene. Business associates, yes, but also friends, which is why she's the one who knows about the cellist. And Pepper's off-duty, drinking champagne with her boyfriend, in the evening, when he shows up. It was okay with me that she wasn't straight-up business in that situation, and I don't think it undermines her as a badass businesswoman.

I think if Pepper Potts gets one scene in the movie, she shouldn't be quite so casual. And again, a self-proclaimed feminist ought to take the opportunity to take care of the character.

I never took "I'm not supposed to know that" as her playing dumb. She's not supposed to know that because it's classified and Tony broke into the files and NEITHER of them are supposed to know about it.

Then it's Coulson who's being silly, or the scene is tonally all wrong. "Oh, hi, I'm here to talk to you about stuff you're not supposed to know about." Look, I GET that this is supposed to be a fun summer flick, but he's allowed to have it both ways: either it's all in good fun, or they brought Whedon on board because he "gets" characters and he was supposed to have written them "well". In my mind, he wrote a bad scene, and wrote some of my favorite characters in the Marvel universe badly (I had problems with the way Tony Stark was written, too, in all fairness).

I thought Maria Hill was well handled - my memory of her entire sequence at the start was the basic message of "FYI, y'all, Maria Hill will keep coming at you with everything, so watch out". And I thought Cobie Smulders did a good job, and think terming her as a "pet" of his as if that's the only reason she'd be considered for such a role is unnecessarily diminishing of her. (also, while he did favour her for Wonder Woman, which I think would have been great, have they ever even worked together before?)

You call it diminishing. I say, the only thing I saw when I was watching Maria Hill was "this is my attempt to make Cobie Smulders happen because she didn't get to be MY Wonder Woman". I didn't think she was all that great, or that she wasn't given much to do that couldn't have been given to a throwaway military guy/gal.

I wouldn't say I hate him for this, but Dane Cook is trying WAY too hard to be edgy, here. Too bad the joke sucked.

To be fair, it's very hard for Dane to be funny. Well except for when he is telling people that they are stealing his essence and to stop it because that made me laugh and laugh and laugh some more. God he is a tool.

biakbiak wrote:To be fair, it's very hard for Dane to be funny. Well except for when he is telling people that they are stealing his essence and to stop it because that made me laugh and laugh and laugh some more. God he is a tool.

True. I guess I can hate him because he's such a crap comedian. I don't need this lame-ass joke as an excuse.

Matinee wrote:(also, while he did favour her for Wonder Woman, which I think would have been great, have they ever even worked together before?)

IMDB says mutual acquaintance Alyson Hannigan was lobbying for Cobie Smulders to be cast by Joss. Which I actually find delightful, if true.

I'm not the biggest fan of Joss either. I kind of side-eye the translation of feminism into his finished product, but that is a way longer rant than I feel equipped to start today. And I agree, that's a jarring statement compared to exactly how Scarlet Widow was utilized on screen (ultimately, I don't feel like "my power is making men think I'm vulnerable" is terribly progressive), but I have to weigh that against the fact that she had yards more to do and more complexity compared to her introduction in Iron Man, and her smarts were able to stop the world ending threat where the brute force of the other characters couldn't manage it. And I actually enjoyed ScarJo in the role, and I rarely enjoy her in anything. So there's that.

So basically, I'm irritated at that statement by Joss, but not necessarily for the same reason.


Also, Dane Cook is reprehensible, but I just have a hard time considering him a star. I guess "Two-bit hacks you Hate" would be pedantic, though.

What's telling to me is there is a pretty vocal segment of the comedy world that hates Dane Cook and I don't think it's just the joke stealing.

The Dude wrote:What's telling to me is there is a pretty vocal segment of the comedy world that hates Dane Cook and I don't think it's just the joke stealing.

On the other hand, he's united South Park fans and Family Guy fans in mutual disdain for him, so he may qualify for a Nobel Peace Prize.