Old Hollywood

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Old Hollywood

Post  RubberMan on Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:51 pm

51 years since Marilyn died today. Did Jackie Kennedy know all along about the affair?

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Re: Old Hollywood

Post  Evil Evelyn on Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:34 pm

Confession time: I don't get the obsession with Marilyn Monroe. Okay, I *get* it- she was beautiful, sexy, charming, and all that good stuff, but WHY are we still talking about her death fifty years after the fact? Is it really that interesting? I know there are questions that will never be solved and that she associated with some shady people, but I feel like MM has been pounded into my brain my whole life, and I'm getting sick of her. I still enjoy her movies to a degree, but goddamn, is it getting old. There are other old Hollywood actresses worth discussing.

This isn't anything against you, RubberMan, I just had to get it off my chest.

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Re: Old Hollywood

Post  Sheli on Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:18 am

I've never been that interested in Marilyn, either. My college roommate loved her and had a bunch of posters, calendars, etc. I tried to care but did not. I could not get behind all the supposedly empowering quotes about being a sexy loveable bitch (paraphrased).

However, I do appreciate Marilyn's curves, and she did have huge impact on Hollywood. Plus a Hollywood star getting mixed up with a president? And then dying mysteriously? While I don't care much, I can totally see why people are still talking. They still talk about Elvis, too, after all.

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Re: Old Hollywood

Post  Evil Evelyn on Wed Aug 07, 2013 3:12 pm

I was never much of an Elvis fan. I understand the impact he had on music, but I always preferred Buddy Holly to Elvis.

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Re: Old Hollywood

Post  Lurker on Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:30 pm

Maybe it has to do with the time. Elvis, Marilyn Monroe, and even James Dean were all big names at roughly the same time and had tragic ends. Maybe they stood out more than the other stars at the time, unlike in the 30s and 40s where there were several stars.

how many of the older stars are still with us? Offhand I can only think of Olivia deHavilland and Joan Fontaine, who I wish would have some grand reunion.

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Re: Old Hollywood

Post  Evil Evelyn on Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:40 pm

Well, Mickey Rooney is still alive. Other than that, I can't say.

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Re: Old Hollywood

Post  Heather on Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:03 pm

I think it's a fascination with lost potential. Society likes complete endings. That's a dumb sentence but you know what I mean -- it doesn't have to be a HAPPY ending, but dying young means there's so much we'll never know, etc. That, plus the fact that the culture now is for us to know EVERYTHING about EVERYTHING, and back then there was a lot more mystery.

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Re: Old Hollywood

Post  Kiran on Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:02 pm

Yes, all three of those people you mentioned made dramatic impacts quickly and then died relatively young. Like I think James Dean is the most dramatic example of that but it applies to all three. They also I think have been used as symbolic representatives of the eras they were prevalent in. So when you think of a certain era that is the image that comes to you. Like when you think of acting in the 1950s the first image is probably Marlon Brando and James Dean, when in reality there were tons of other stars that for whatever reason have not had the same cultural impact. They tapped into something about the era in which they were most popular and more then just being performers became cultural icons.

I enjoy all three as performers, but I do agree the cult of Marilyn is a bit much. In particular the girls on tumblr and facebook who post that "If you don't love me at my worst, you don't deserve me at my best" quote, and that period where Lindsay Lohan was fixated on her, seem to diminish the fact that this was a tortured woman who had a tragic life and died in a loney way far too young.

But I think its the same thing that goes on with any talented person who dies too young (Kurt Cobain, Tupac, Heath Ledger, Amy Winehouse, Janis Joplin etc). Its not only the loss of a talent, its the loss that they could have achieved. We can imagine all sorts of amazing things that they might have done. I mean that doesn't mean it would have happened. But James Dean died so young and only made three, culturally resonant movies. We didn't have to watch him age into what Marlon Brando did (obese, kinda tragic, mixing in excellent work with some horrible work, dysfunctional as hell). So we can imagine a life where he would have had an amazing long Paul Newman type career.

People also take to different people for different reasons. For example I always prefered Audrey Hepburn to Katharine Hepburn in the battle of the Hepburns. But it doesn't mean that there aren't tons of people out there that feel the exact opposite.
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Re: Old Hollywood

Post  Arabella on Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:10 pm

Vintage Liz & Dick magazine covers. Fascinating to see how tabloids have and haven't changed in 50 years. Also intrigued by the other cover headlines: there are photos of Paul Newman in a nudist colony in 1963?! Why did the minister attack Jackie? It was in 1962 so it couldn't have been about Onassis. And oy to "Why Is Mommy White?"

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Re: Old Hollywood

Post  Evil Evelyn on Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:23 pm

People also take to different people for different reasons. For example I always preferred Audrey Hepburn to Katharine Hepburn in the battle of the Hepburns. But it doesn't mean that there aren't tons of people out there that feel the exact opposite.
Me, too! Audrey was so much more fun than Katharine, and a better actress, I think. I like Katharine well enough, but Audrey was more lovable, IMO.

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Re: Old Hollywood

Post  jstilwe on Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:32 pm

Whereas I love that slightly brittle, bitchy quality that Katharine had. I think she used it to great, and often funny, effect.

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Re: Old Hollywood

Post  Gillian on Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:01 pm

Arabella wrote:Vintage Liz & Dick magazine covers. Fascinating to see how tabloids have and haven't changed in 50 years.
Is Debbie Reynolds the Debbie whose miscarriage(s) are being loudly proclaimed in the headlines? Holy shit, man.

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Re: Old Hollywood

Post  Arabella on Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:22 pm

Gillian wrote:
Arabella wrote:Vintage Liz & Dick magazine covers. Fascinating to see how tabloids have and haven't changed in 50 years.
Is Debbie Reynolds the Debbie whose miscarriage(s) are being loudly proclaimed in the headlines?  Holy shit, man.
Yes, Debbie Reynolds got married again post-Eddie Fisher in 1960. That was the most jarring thing to me (and the racial stuff but it was 1960s America so I suppose it's to be expected). I thought today's "Bump Watch" was bad but the tabloids do handle fertility matters a touch more delicately now.

"The Plot to Kill Bob Hope" threw me for a loop but then I remembered he did all those USO shows for the troops during the Vietnam War. There's also a headline about "Jack Kennedy's first marriage" (a Birther-esque conspiracy theory that JFK was married another woman prior to Jackie), which the mainstream media probably gave short shrift at the time, but the Kennedys also seem to have been held up back then as the tasteful, loving celebrity couple alternative in contrast to those wanton degenerates Taylor and Burton. I would love to see how these kinds of tabloids wrote about "Happy Birthday, Mr. President" right after it happened.


Last edited by Arabella on Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:36 am; edited 3 times in total

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Re: Old Hollywood

Post  Francie Nolan on Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:18 am

That splitscreen Liz and Dick/Jackie and John cover is dated November 1963, too. Oy.

Tabloids are still judgey today, of course, but I think there's more of an attempt to be more covert. There is a whole lotta slut-shaming going on in those covers. I can't get over how many times the word "sin" is used. For a minute, I thought Photoplay might have been some sort of Catholic movie magazine (until the promise of Paul Newman nudes...where might those be, anyway?)

"The Plot to Kill Bob Hope" though me for a loop, too. It sounds like a film from which I might remember Troy McClure.

Apparently, the answer to the Adam West question is no, he must not die young. I really want to read that story.

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Re: Old Hollywood

Post  Arabella on Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:17 am

Francie Nolan wrote:Tabloids are still judgey today, of course, but I think there's more of an attempt to be more covert.  There is a whole lotta slut-shaming going on in those covers.  I can't get over how many times the word "sin" is used.  For a minute, I thought Photoplay might have been some sort of Catholic movie magazine (until the promise of Paul Newman nudes...where might those be, anyway?)
Even the Vatican got in on the act with Taylor and Burton, condemning them for "erotic vagrancy" during their affair. This was a time when married couples on TV still had to keep up the twin bed pretense, so the mags probably laid on it on thick with all the real-life sin! of the movie stars to seem extra shocking and get more readers.

Not that there aren't misleading tabloid cover headlines now, but, BURTON STRIKES LIZ AND SWEARS: "YOU'LL NEVER HAVE HIS BABIES!" (oh yeah, in their movie) is an order above anything you'd see out of OK! or Life & Style these days.

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Re: Old Hollywood

Post  Kiran on Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:23 am

Yeah the Vatican also went after Ingrid Bergman for having an affair.
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Re: Old Hollywood

Post  biakbiak on Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:49 am

Today the Pope would simply say "Who am I to judge?" ( ignoring the fact that the job description for nearly 2,000 years was to judge!)
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Re: Old Hollywood

Post  Algae on Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:13 am

Do any of you read Scandals of Classic Hollywood over at the Hairpin? I love those articles. They're a great look at why stars fascinated people, the way studios manipulated everyone, and some of the truth, too.
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Re: Old Hollywood

Post  GoodbyeWithWords on Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:09 pm

Francie Nolan wrote: (until the promise of Paul Newman nudes...where might those be, anyway?)
Sounds like a big tease. You'd think if they could've delivered the real deal that it would've knocked Liz off the cover for a week.

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Re: Old Hollywood

Post  Shalamar on Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:56 pm

Audrey was so much more fun than Katharine, and a better actress, I think.
This is more of an Unpopular Opinion, but I didn't think Audrey Hepburn was all that as an actress - particularly in My Fair Lady.  I saw that again recently and was dumbstruck by how much I disliked it, and I really didn't think she was very good as Eliza.  (Having said that, though, I adored her in later life for her work with Unicef.)

Speaking of being dumbstruck, one of those Hairpin articles starts off with "Maybe you've never heard of Barbara Stanwyck." Really? I thought she was a huge star and still known even today for roles like Sorry, Wrong Number and Double Indemnity.
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Re: Old Hollywood

Post  eco on Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:34 pm

Breakfast at Tiffany's is a terrible movie, and Audrey Hepburn isn't that great of an actress. (Although How to Steal a Million is one of my favorite movies).

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Re: Old Hollywood

Post  bookworm on Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:36 pm

Oh I LOVE How to Steal a Million. Peter O'Toole was so dishy, and it was so funny.
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Re: Old Hollywood

Post  salamandersam on Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:33 pm

My favorite Audrey Hepburn movie is Charade with Cary Grant and Walter Mathau as a CIA agent (or FBI) something with an I.

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Re: Old Hollywood

Post  Evil Evelyn on Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:30 pm

I love Roman Holiday for Peck and Hepburn's final scene alone. Their eyes say so much in that scene, it's heartbreaking.

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Re: Old Hollywood

Post  Lurker on Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:34 pm

I love Charade!   Another Audrey Hepburn movie I like is Two for the Road directed by Stanley Donen.  She was also in a movie about a nun that was good as well.

How to Steal a Million was cute.  I like Peter O'Toole with dark hair.

I like both Hepburns, but am fascinated by Audrey's young life during WWII.

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Re: Old Hollywood

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