Game of Thrones

Eh, I think Vikings is not as good as GoT (although I think that is a HIGH barrier), but its faring much better than Camelot. My God that show was bad. I watched every episode.

I love this show and am so glad to have it back.

Oh god, Camelot was so much of the suck. It took us like, eight months to finish the last two episodes just so we could say we saw the whole thing.

An obsessed colleague just gave me GOT series 1. I'm pretty sure that I'm going to be hooked on this.

Dooo eeett! Join us.

Caught up on the season premiere. I'm already loving Ciaran Hinds as Mance Rayder. He's not quite how I pictured the character but he's still perfect. I also like the Tyrell siblings more and more every time I see them, especially Natalie Dormer as Margaery. I believe her as someone who genuinely cares about the poor people in King's Landing but also knows how the game is played and will milk that caring for all it's worth.

Unfortunately, I officially hate Show Robb now, for calling his mother a traitor and wanting to find a CELL for her in Winterfell. She only released Jaime because the Stark men wanted him dead, and if Jaime is dead, Sansa and Arya are dead, but he doesn't seem to give that the tiniest thought or care about his sisters at all. And maybe, just maybe, Catelyn wouldn't have had to resort to drastic measures to free Jaime if the Northmen weren't getting so unruly about wanting his head, and maybe they wouldn't be so unruly if Robb bothered to LEAD THEM instead of spending a whole season flirting with the hot nurse.

Catelyn's monologue about Jon was flawless, and a beautiful character-deepening addition (that wasn't in the book, iirc). Michelle Fairley is amazing. The crossbow scene with Joffrey and Margaery was great too, especially that final shot.

I'm loving Margaery. Girl's got game.
As for Robb - in his position as putative King in The North he can't make decisions on a purely personal basis any more, no matter how much he loves his sisters or his mother. That's a harsh reality of being in a position of power. Letting Jaime, one of the Lannisters most formidable fighters, go puts the Northmen at a disadvantage and the lives of 2 young girls don't outbalance that. Add to that Catelyn countermanding his orders, which no leader can have anyone, especially his mother, do and clearly he has no choice other than to have her punished.

As for Robb - in his position as putative King in The North he can't make decisions on a purely personal basis any more

Decisions such as, say, marrying the hot medic for true love while tossing over the girl he promised to marry in a deal he made with the Freys, thus throwing a middle finger into the face of a family with a HUGE army that was taking a huge risk in supporting Robb over Joffrey in the first place?

I mean, it seems to me that releasing ONE fighter, even if he is the second-best fighter in the Seven Kingdoms, is not nearly as dangerous as pissing off an entire powerful House.

I could handle it if we looked like he felt even remotely sad about locking his mom away - "Sorry, Mum, I have to do this to set an example" - or if he acknowledged that he made a decision just as stupid, if not more stupid, than hers, but he's got this petulance about him that makes me want to smack him. He's the oldest of the Stark kids and the brattiest of the lot.

Sansa's brunch with the Queen of Thorns was one of my favorite scenes in the books and this did it justice.

I am liking TV Margery way more than book Margery. As with her "let's cut the shit" scene with Renly last year, her populist turn with the orphans and immediately using the information gleaned from Sansa to channel Joffrey's sadism (a first!) shows her as Olenna's spirit heir.

I can understand Cersie from a feminist perspective. I get she wants to be free and constantly runs up against the men in her family.

Jaime remains the foremost insult comic in Westeros.

Was there only ONE Tyrion scene in the show?!

If Arya's storyline was the weakest part of the show, it had to be a great episode.

Jaime and Brienne's Excellent Adventure is everything I hoped it would be and more. OMG. I love those two together. I hope they get the main plot of an episode soon.

I have issues with this show in terms of adaptation of the books, but I have to hand it to the showrunners for making me care so much - or at all, really - about Theon Greyjoy. Alfie Allen is doing a great job with his character.

Catelyn's speech about Jon Snow broke my heart, and Michelle Fairley played it so well. (But, uh, Cat, if you're going to feel guilty about your role in the bad things that happened to your family, I think trusting Littlefinger and kidnapping Tyrion was a bigger mistake. Just sayin'.)

Excellent introduction for Jojen and Meera Reed. So happy to see them after missing them for a whole year.

Man, I LOVE Margaery. Joffrey is no match for her and I think even he might know it. I wish there had been more Arya, but the Jamie & Brienne Show made up for it. I agree about the development of Theon, I never cared that much about him in the books (until A Dance with Dragons), but I have found him much more interesting in the show.

Robb works for me because I completely by him as someone who underneath it all is a teenage boy. So I agree with naughty zoot he is acting as King of the North, but hes still a hormonal teenage boy. While I'm not a huge Talisa fan (although I don't hate her either, I loved Oona Chaplin in The Hour but as of now she hasn't made a huge impression on me here), what sold that for me was last season when she said "I don't want you to get married." And he responded "I don't WANT to get married." It was so very kid who didn't ask for it trying his best.

I think hes fucking up, and is being cold to his mother and its annoying, but I also think its interesting from a storytelling perspective. I don't know, Robb Stark to me as a character (not a plot device) never made a huge impression on me in the books. I mean I liked him, but he never got a POV. I think the show has done a good job of making him complex and interesting, but I understand why others don't feel the same way, because he is acting kinda douchey.

Well, and this isn't Robb the character's fault, but I also dislike the way the writers seem to have prioritized his story over Catelyn's in the past year. In the book we get Robb from Catelyn's point of view, and in the show it feels reversed. Robb wasn't a character whose POV in the books I ever felt the need to see - he was a sweet kid but not that interesting, and so far, IMO, the show hasn't justified giving him this much attention. "I have to marry for politics rather than love, wah, I don't want to" is like the Westerosi equivalent of a #firstworldproblem, especially when you're a dude.

But, the last episode at least had Lord Karstark point out that marrying Talisa was a really fucking stupid idea, so I feel a little better about his storyline. (Though, what happened to the Greatjon Umber? WHERE IS GREY WIND?)

Yeah I don't care if it's "believable" that he's acting like a teenager, he's acting like a stupid petulant douche, and I really really never thought book Robb was a stupid petulant douche. Guided by honor and prone to foolishness like his father, yes, but to Robb's credit he WAS a teenager.

I can't even be rational about how much of Arya and Gendry was cut for all that crap. There had better be a lot of them in this weeks episode.

Like, I said I understand why you don't feel the same way, I was just expressing my opinion, to me its believable, that doesn't mean its pleasant to watch and I understand why other are annoyed though I don't necessarily feel the same way.

Something queenofdenile has brought up is a really interesting problem that the showrunners have to deal with... the POV thing. I hadn't noticed it as much with Robb and Catelyn, although now that you mention it, it is very clear to me (maybe I don't mind because I think he's superhot) But I have really missed Davos and seeing Stannis through his eyes. It is difficult for me to understand why anyone would be on Stannis's side in the show, whereas Davos's musings and clear devotion to him strengthen that for me in the books.

SERIOUS SPOILERS DO NOT CLICK IF YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW:

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Yep. Which is another reason I don't mind

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I will say, while I agree Cat has been shortchanged (though I really did enjoy her last episode), I do think as a whole, this show has improved a lot of female characters or added to them. I always loved Margarey but I really like how blatantly savvy they are making her. And I think Shae, Ygritte and Cersei are far more interesting and less one dimensional then they were in the books.

Agreed. I'm in the process of reading the books now (most of the way through book 3) and I definitely think the show women are, on the whole, more dynamic and sympathetic. I can't get over how annoying I find Shae in the books (although maybe that's the audiobook narrator's way of voicing her) but I love her on the show. She seems much older and wiser and kinder. And Ygritte is awesome. Again, not sure if it was the narrator who made me dislike her more in the book. I wish Rose Leslie could be on every show I like!

Anyway, not sure where I was going with that, but I don't mind Cat being more sidelined. Frankly she is not my favorite narrative voice in the books - I know she's in a shitty position but she's such a downer!

Spoilers ahoy (I don't want to post in the true spoiler thread because I'm still two books behind, but BEWARE. I know things!)

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Emrie I hated how the narrator did women. Every woman in Westeros sounded like Bea Arthur trying an Irish brogue. I wish they would have had a female narrator for all the female characters POVs.

Regarding Robb and SPOILERS, I feel that

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As for Shae, my prediction is that

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I'm speaking as someone who hasn't read the books, but the moment that really turned me off Lady Catelyn, like forever, was when she let Jamie Lannister go behind everyone's backs. Although I get her reasoning in retrospect, it just came across as so goddamned infuriating at the time (moreso than anything Robb is doing - including marrying Talisa) that I don't care that basically everyone is treating her like, "You are so.fucking.stupid and I hate you." Because that's how I feel and I would be doing the opposite of everything she said and did too, just to spite her. It was the equivalent of when Jack smashed Jacob's compass in rage mere seconds after discovering it in LOST.

This is why I think the show did a disservice to both Catelyn and Robb, by having her free Jaime and him marry Hot Nurse BEFORE they found out about Bran and Rickon instead of after.

queenofdenile wrote:This is why I think the show did a disservice to both Catelyn and Robb, by having her free Jaime and him marry Hot Nurse BEFORE they found out about Bran and Rickon instead of after.

Agree! Makes Robb much more of an impulsive dummy. I like how his marrying error comes due to his following his father's strict honor-code after making an emotional mistake.

I'm loving Margaery. Girl's got game.

Amen. How creepy was it when Joffrey was looking at her all "... where have you BEEN all my life?" when she was saying how cool it would be to kill something? Yikes.

Kudos for casting Dame Diana Rigg as the Queen of Thorns. I always thought that she and Natalie Dormer had a strong resemblance to each other.

So the was Shiny McShine that gave Jaime the manicure.

Not that I didn't expect it to happen, but narratively things picked up. I was wondering the whole ep, which story arc would the next shoe drop.