The Walking Dead

Binky wrote:

dionneshea wrote:
And they've got to find a better way of pacing these episodes. There are huge sections of each of them so far (with the exception of the premiere) that have just DRAGGED. They don't have to have non-stop zombie action, but I need to care about what's going on.

Agreed. I'm not sure how to fix it (except possibly kill off half the cast), but the difference between the action and the dragging is profound.

I think they're a bit stuck because of the way they're messing with time this season. The beginning of episode 4 (the Bethisode) happens presumably around the time of episodes 14, 15, and 16 of Season 4, but ends at the same time or slightly before the end of episode 3 of this season. And it looks like Episode 6 is going to be happening concurrently with episodes 3 and 5. But unless they're doing something really tricky with the time between the three groups, then they could have cut out the final scene of episode 3 (when Daryl comes back), still had Beth's episode as is, as hers is the one that was completely out of the timeline, and cut together episodes 3, 5, and 6 and so that we're not just concentrating on one group or one person at a time. Unless the messed up timelines have a REALLY good payoff, I think it was a mistake. Especially with all the negative feedback surrounding the same strategy last season when we spent whole episodes on two or three characters.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVED Season 4B. It was my favourite run of episodes in the whole series. I thought it healthily balanced character development, relationship development, and good old-fashioned zombie killing. But, it was also leading you to a conclusion in which you thought, okay, all of this concentration on the individual stories is going to lead back to them all getting together again and concentrating on group stories. And they were, for about 24 hours. And then they broke them up into three different groups again (four, if you count Beth). And that's where I think things have gone off the rails. They spent all of last season hoping to meet up again only to break apart the moment that they're back together. There should have been a better way to do things.

MichiSichi wrote:Thank you - from the blurred edges I wasn't sure if all of it was "real" or some kind of PTSD. I also like that Eugene was exposed quickly, I think TWD is pretty good in that manner. I am also surprised they still have not had Maggie say anything about Beth - after all the see the comments and memes from fans so they must know people find it odd .

I think, on an emotional level, Maggie already considered Beth lost at the prison. So even with Daryl telling her that Beth was alive when he last saw her-- well, I can believe that she hears the "was" and doesn't get her hopes up. Beth being alive and findable is too abstract a concept for her at this point. So she doesn't talk about finding Beth or going back for her or stuff like that because it isn't real for her, not in the same way it is for Daryl.

There were some great parts of this episode. I did like the look into what Carol was up to between the fall of the prison, and all of the things that led her to the place where she is now, emotionally and psychologically. And I did like that even though they were separated for maybe four months at most, she's a little at sea with who Daryl has become. She recognizes that he's not the same, and isn't really comfortable with it, but is learning to be. She wants to be.

But lord, that was an entire hour of telling us stuff we already knew or already inferred, with basically no actual change in either character, and very little forward momentum made. They found out Beth was being held in the hospital, but that seems like very little payoff for an entire hour. Or maybe that's just me. It sets up the last two episodes of this half season nicely, because it means the next two will be action, action, action, but it still doesn't seem like enough.

And I don't expect Carol's whole person to change in just one hour. And there was a glimmer with her wanting to save Noah after earlier she tried to kill him. (I didn't buy the, "I was aiming for his leg" thing for a second.) I don't know, I think it's more of what I've been complaining about all season, which is that I felt like the episode dragged, this time in the first half, rather than the middle half. I don't know what more they could have done, but I'm fairly certain if they were cutting between the different sections of the group, it wouldn't feel so draggy.

Agree.... I'd rather have them all together too
Also can Daryl please stop losing his crossbow

dionneshea wrote:There were some great parts of this episode. I did like the look into what Carol was up to between the fall of the prison, and all of the things that led her to the place where she is now, emotionally and psychologically. And I did like that even though they were separated for maybe four months at most, she's a little at sea with who Daryl has become. She recognizes that he's not the same, and isn't really comfortable with it, but is learning to be. She wants to be.

I loved that part of the episode, it's what felt the most real to me. I've had times like that, when I haven't been around people for a while, and things are weird, even though I love them deeply. I like the little moments that they had that I think they would only have with each other:
(Carol: You don't know me.
Dary: Yeah...keep telling yourself that.)

I'm glad we got some perspective on Carol's "lost moments", but I GOT IT with the fire. I don't think we needed to see it ten times.

In terms of ridiculousness, the van going over the side of the bridge was pretty up there for me, but I still loved it, because of the hand hold. The transformation of the two of them from the first season to now is pretty amazing, but it feels like they've grown organically, together, which I think is really rare for TV writers and actors to pull off. I buy that they used to not know each other whatsoever two years ago, and now they're each other's person.

All the awards for Melissa McBride, please.

Dionneshea, you really nailed the timing issues dragging it down (and you posted that BEFORE this episode where it became so apparent).

I love Daryl and Carol, they are my favorites (and I think they bring the best out in each other, as characters and actors). But this episode was still so draggy! I don't know why, narratively, we had to know Carol is already in the hospital before showing us how she got there. It didn't add tension. It took it away.

Melissa McBride is AMAZING.

Good episode that FEMA scene hmmmm

I'm going to watch it again, because my attention wavered. But that's not really good. My attention shouldn't waver.

There were things I do remember liking. Operation: Strawberries For Epinephrine. I like that Beth is being effective and badass, but in her own Beth way. The small exchange between Rick and Michonne at the top of the episode. Daryl (!) being the one to say that going with Tyreese's non-violent approach would be the best way. The FEMA zombies and the bowling ball skull. Tara and GREATM and the yo-yo. Finally finding out something (anything) about Rosita. Tyreese and Sasha's talk.

But I still felt the pacing lacked a little. I really could not care less about Father Gabriel at this point. And maybe they'll make me one day, but right now every scene of his felt like time wasted. Aside from Rosita, Glenn, and Tara at the pond scenes, I wasn't terribly interested with what was going on in that group. And the thing with Sasha and Other Bob at the end was so telegraphed, it was almost comical.

Maybe I just need to watch it again.

Sasha, don't do it! He's HYDRA!

I'm glad that all the story lines are finally converging. I hope Tara and Rosita stick around. I thought those two and Glenn together were pretty great.

I liked the gross melted napalmed-dead and the bowling ball head fight - and by liked I mean found gross but not in the anatomically unlikely (I realize there's no scientific basis for zombie anatomy, but STILL) and kind of excessive which is how I've reacted to most zombie stuff since like season 2.

That said, aside from that part, the episode felt like boring filler.

I really do not care for Glen and Maggie's group. They could all die and the only one I'd be sad about is Glen.

Also, Sasha has the dumb.  That guy tried to feed Daryl to the walkers!

That guy tried to feed Daryl to the walkers!

It was the other male cop who tried to feed Daryl to the walkers, not Bob.

Really? Did they at least look alike? Or do I also have the dumb?

They were both bald.

#notallbaldmen

Oh, that pretty much guarantees I thought they were the same person. But it happens with haired-people, too! I swear.

Catching up on the last 3 episodes for tonight's mid-season finale, something hit me: I ship Rick & Michonne. WTH? How in the world did this happen?

I also ship Rick and Michonne hard core. I think part of it is that they're pretty much a family already.

Um, I cried hard tonight. Like, end-of-Buffy-Season-5 hard. And then I kind of got it together during the Talking Dead and they brought out Emily Kinney and it just got worse.

I LOVED Beth. So much. Not so much in the beginning, but I went and did a rewatch during the summer and I realized she was a much bigger presence all along than I really noticed. I really started loving her from the beginning of Season 4. The stuff with Zach, and taking care of Judith, and then getting out with Daryl. And even though I had shipped Caryl in a kind of way since early season 3, suddenly I loved Bethyl (though, admittedly, I never thought, and still don't think, Daryl was ever going to hook up with anyone). So, I'm heartbroken. Legitimately heartbroken. So heartbroken that I can't really think clearly about the episode.

I don't understand why they'd end 5A pretty much the same way they ended 4A. A Greene is dead, the one person in the group giving people hope and who still believed in good people, and the group is devastated. And while they're together, once again they're rudderless without a home or even a goal.

Like, that's the extent of my analysis, and you guys know how analytical I can get with this show. I also feel bad for Emily Kinney who didn't even find out about Beth's death until they were shooting the episode before this one, and who didn't get to work Lauren Cohan and Steven Yeun, her best friends on the show, for the past year. That would suck.

Heartbroken.

I had no real opinion on Beth, so it speaks to the power of the actors (Cohan and Reedus, especially) that I actually felt like her death mattered.

That said, I hated this episode up until the last five minutes. It bored the crap out of me. They kept talking about hospital characters we either never met or I didn't care about. And I really like the actor playing the priest, but I am not sure what the hell is going on with him or why we care. It felt like 45 minutes about characters other than the already overloaded main cast.

I am really glad they didn't kill off Carol, though. She had dangerous amounts of dialogue recently.

Most of the episode just felt like they were spinning their wheels and then it felt like the end came about because TPTB decided someone needed to die for a ratings boost.

I always loved Beth and Daryl scenes, didn't particularly ship them in a romantic sense, I just liked what they brought out in each other. However, the moment that got me last night (because lets face it Beth was toast the second they mentioned that she was alive to Maggie) was the side hug/kiss on the head from Rick during the hostage exchange. It was so sweet and tender and was a good call back both to Rick's relationship with Herschel and Beth's relationship with Judith.

I hate when the characters are separated but I do adore when they get back together. The arm grab between Michonne and Glenn and Michonne and Maggie's moment both made me go Awww. Though my favorite will always be last season's Rick/Daryl reunion.

needed to die for a ratings boost.

This show doesn't really need a ratings boost.

biakbiak wrote:

needed to die for a ratings boost.

This show doesn't really need a ratings boost.

No, but it needs zombie show cred of appropriate number of main cast character deaths to maintain 'zombie show' genre.

Binky wrote:

biakbiak wrote:

needed to die for a ratings boost.

This show doesn't really need a ratings boost.

No, but it needs zombie show cred of appropriate number of main cast character deaths to maintain 'zombie show' genre.

I kind of like that nowadays we can have TV shows where no one feels like they're a "safe" character. Maybe I'm just old, but it's still refreshing compared to the No-Change-In-Status-Quo shows I grew up with.

I loved a lot of things about this episode, I liked Rick shooting notBob and not falling for that trap again, I liked the reunion, I loved the maggots on Bobs foot.

I understand what you are saying about the priest. I mean if you don't read the comics it is a bit odd, maybe they will explain it.

Okay, I've had time to recover and think about the episode. What shocked me about my continuing heartbreak over losing Beth was that she isn't even my favourite character. (Glenn, what up!) Not even in my top three. (Rick and Michonne, holla!) But I think she's the character whose story I got most invested in. Glenn has been doing jack all lately, Michonne even less, and Rick's continuing spiral into lunacy is entertaining, but not something I can necessarily root for.

You could root for Beth. She was, at the heart of things, a good, smart, kind, strong young woman who had survived in spite of those traits, and offered hope to those around her. She was a survivor, and proud of it, so I can't for the life of me figure out why she'd do something so stupid. Because it was stupid. She didn't even stab Dawn in the neck - the only place where it might have killed her. She stabbed her in the bullet proof vest. Emily Kinney, in struggling to justify her character's choice, said it was a moment where Beth got overconfident. But even that doesn't make sense.

And the episode was so terribly paced. I still don't care about Gabriel. Why did we spend so much time on him? Those scenes didn't make me care about him. They made me want Michonne and Carl to leave him out there to the walkers, because HE WAS ENDANGERING JUDITH! A baby. Also, I couldn't have given two shits about those scenes with Dawn and Beth. They weren't about Beth at all. If they were, maybe I would have understood why they were there. But they were all about Dawn and her confusing, vacillating objectives. Why did they try and make us care about Dawn if she was going to be dead by the end of the episode? That doesn't make sense.

You know what I would have liked to have seen? How about a scene after Carol wakes up with her and Beth reuniting? They haven't seen each other in months by this point. Not since the day before the prison fell. These are two characters who were family, who loved each other dearly. We couldn't get something between them? How about a scene between Michonne and Carl? Have those two even spoken this season? How about a scene of the late-arrivals on their way to Grady. Maggie talking about getting to see her sister and some indication of why she hasn't mentioned her since the day the prison fell.

There have been a lot of dumb things this season. Actually starting with last season. Why did Gareth put Rick and crew in Glenn's train car, knowing they were from the same group? That's a dumb idea. Why was Sasha left alone with Officer Bob at the end of "Crossed"? Everyone was still around. Also, why would he try to escape like that? I repeat: everyone was still around. Why did he try to escape at all? They were going along with his plan.

I'm so frustrated, and angry, and upset with that last episode. I thought maybe I was overreacting, and I certainly am, but it did help reading review after review of people saying how stupid Beth's death was, and how it showed a lack of any real foresight. And the writers keep saying, they wanted to kill off someone who would shock audiences. But all of the polls leading up to the episode had Beth in that #1 position. They want to shock people? Kill off Daryl. Or Maggie. Or Michonne (but no, never do that). Hell, even Abraham would be a bigger shock than Beth.

One could say I've moved from Denial and Isolation, firmly into Anger.

Why did they try and make us care about Dawn if she was going to be dead by the end of the episode? That doesn't make sense.

I would argue the point was less "care about Dawn" and more show us why Beth decided that Dawn was too dangerous to live.

If that's the case, then what was Beth ultimately trying to do? Did she think stabbing her in the shoulder with those tiny scissors would kill her, or was that just a failure in the direction? Because I find it very hard to believe that Beth was committing suicide by Dawn which would lead to Dawn's death which is a theory I've seen presented elsewhere. That would mean that she had thought that far ahead to predict Daryl killing Dawn and that's a stretch I just can't make. The confusion of the scene and the ambiguity of Beth's intentions really derailed the impact of her death for me.

There was indeed a lot of stupid this season. Stupidity and missed opportunities.