Celebrity Feuds
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Page 20 of 21 • 1 ... 11 ... 19, 20, 21
Re: Celebrity Feuds
I...can't really feel badly for her family. The parents at least seem to have not ever reined her in - "this was within the spectrum of things I did" - and the sister is now defending her in those bizarre and off the point tweets laddical mentioned.
naughty zoot- Posts : 1103
Join date : 2011-10-21
Location : Western Mass
Re: Celebrity Feuds
I...can't really feel badly for her family. The parents at least seem to have not ever reined her in
Yep, this is how I feel as well. I read an excerpt from her book a while ago, and everything about it made me think a) she clearly does not have boundaries and feels she can insert herself into other people's lives whenever she feels like it, and b) this is a woman who, as a child and adolescent, was clearly never told not to do something and therefore thinks that her behaviour (not just in this instance with her sister) is completely justified because it's just what she wants to do, so she should be able to do it.
Re: Celebrity Feuds
I would add that -- and I've seen other smart, navel-gazing, deep-thinking people do this as well -- I think she feels that because she examines everything she does SO CLOSELY, it's basically excused after that. I'm sure if you said to her "You have no boundaries, and you feel you can insert yourself into other people's lives whenever you feel like it. You were never told no, and you just think your behavior is justified because it's what you want to do, so you should be able to do it" she'd be like "I KNOW! You are so right about that. I just have NO BOUNDARIES. It's really crazy. So I'm always doing this thing where I insert myself into other people's lives, and they totally hate it! I am so like that. I just had like, NO LIMITS growing up, so I think it's probably a result of that." And then she'd feel like that was that. I think she somehow feels that admitting to what her issues are inoculates her against having to actually deal with the consequences. Of course she didn't hesitate to tell all the weird stories about how she treated her sister as a kid. She's TELLING the story, so she's obviously not ashamed of it, and so, that somehow makes it fine. Maybe because she thinks it makes her so uniquely self-aware that nobody can be mad at her when she's obviously so intelligent and deep? Something like that. I doubt she thinks of it that way consciously, but I think that's how she deals with basically everything.eventide82 wrote:I...can't really feel badly for her family. The parents at least seem to have not ever reined her in
Yep, this is how I feel as well. I read an excerpt from her book a while ago, and everything about it made me think a) she clearly does not have boundaries and feels she can insert herself into other people's lives whenever she feels like it, and b) this is a woman who, as a child and adolescent, was clearly never told not to do something and therefore thinks that her behaviour (not just in this instance with her sister) is completely justified because it's just what she wants to do, so she should be able to do it.
Even if you called her on doing that, she'd probably just agree with you, and by agreeing with you, think that that was such a special and fearless way to approach it that it magically absolved her of the still-present fact that she does it.
Look, I like Lena Dunham. I find her eyeroll-worthy at times, but I think she has an interesting brain and I think Girls is an interesting show. I don't think she's the voice of a generation (and I don't think she's even said that; she had her character in the show say it, and the character was meant to appear delusional -- even though, as with everything with Lena Dunham, part of the trick is that because the character saying it is positioned as being delusional that also is supposed to make it so it's kind of true though) and I don't think the show is perfect, but I also think it gets WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY more criticism than any other show ever made about young women living in the city (Sex and the City, Friends, Ally McBeal, all of which were mostly self-absorbed privileged white people having stupid shallow problems but that never seemed to be much of an issue then) (well, maybe with Ally McBeal) (please enjoy my extremely current references), and I DO think a lot of that is due to the fact that she's not conventionally attractive and she's young and full of herself and we now live in an age where people spend their leisure time dissecting every single piece of media that comes across their faces down to the atoms and mostly find it lacking. I am uncomfortable with what she said in the book and I'm uncomfortable with her lack of clue about an appropriate way to respond to the concerns, but I'm also uncomfortable with the now-common practice of the entire internet putting someone on trial and debating endlessly about whether the person is worthy or not and then rendering a verdict. It is mob justice and it makes me uneasy. I'm not saying people are wrong about it, but I do think there are people who are just happy to have a reason to pile on her.
So there's that, BUT ALSO, she very clearly thinks that she's found the secret to being able to get away with saying and doing whatever the fuck she wants and expressing every unfiltered though that crosses her mind without any consideration of how it will affect other people, and it seems apparent that because she was so smart and articulate as a child her parents just let it all slide and didn't give her any limits. And that's allowed her to flourish artistically and have the confidence and stamina to write and produce her own critically acclaimed TV show. But it also makes her deficient in certain ways as a human being, it appears. And if anyone registers an objection to anything she does she can sidestep them by, to quote Amber, the disproportionately confident reality-show contestant with one leg as played by Amy Poehler on SNL, basically saying "Yeah, I farted. JEALOUS?"
So in conclusion, I don't really have a conclusion. I've followed this whole thing with interest. It's dimmed my opinion of her, for sure.
Instant Monkeys- Posts : 1783
Join date : 2011-10-21
Re: Celebrity Feuds
*slow clap*Instant Monkeys wrote:I would add that -- and I've seen other smart, navel-gazing, deep-thinking people do this as well -- I think she feels that because she examines everything she does SO CLOSELY, it's basically excused after that. I'm sure if you said to her "You have no boundaries, and you feel you can insert yourself into other people's lives whenever you feel like it. You were never told no, and you just think your behavior is justified because it's what you want to do, so you should be able to do it" she'd be like "I KNOW! You are so right about that. I just have NO BOUNDARIES. It's really crazy. So I'm always doing this thing where I insert myself into other people's lives, and they totally hate it! I am so like that. I just had like, NO LIMITS growing up, so I think it's probably a result of that." And then she'd feel like that was that. I think she somehow feels that admitting to what her issues are inoculates her against having to actually deal with the consequences. Of course she didn't hesitate to tell all the weird stories about how she treated her sister as a kid. She's TELLING the story, so she's obviously not ashamed of it, and so, that somehow makes it fine. Maybe because she thinks it makes her so uniquely self-aware that nobody can be mad at her when she's obviously so intelligent and deep? Something like that. I doubt she thinks of it that way consciously, but I think that's how she deals with basically everything.eventide82 wrote:I...can't really feel badly for her family. The parents at least seem to have not ever reined her in
Yep, this is how I feel as well. I read an excerpt from her book a while ago, and everything about it made me think a) she clearly does not have boundaries and feels she can insert herself into other people's lives whenever she feels like it, and b) this is a woman who, as a child and adolescent, was clearly never told not to do something and therefore thinks that her behaviour (not just in this instance with her sister) is completely justified because it's just what she wants to do, so she should be able to do it.
Even if you called her on doing that, she'd probably just agree with you, and by agreeing with you, think that that was such a special and fearless way to approach it that it magically absolved her of the still-present fact that she does it.
Look, I like Lena Dunham. I find her eyeroll-worthy at times, but I think she has an interesting brain and I think Girls is an interesting show. I don't think she's the voice of a generation (and I don't think she's even said that; she had her character in the show say it, and the character was meant to appear delusional -- even though, as with everything with Lena Dunham, part of the trick is that because the character saying it is positioned as being delusional that also is supposed to make it so it's kind of true though) and I don't think the show is perfect, but I also think it gets WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY more criticism than any other show ever made about young women living in the city (Sex and the City, Friends, Ally McBeal, all of which were mostly self-absorbed privileged white people having stupid shallow problems but that never seemed to be much of an issue then) (well, maybe with Ally McBeal) (please enjoy my extremely current references), and I DO think a lot of that is due to the fact that she's not conventionally attractive and she's young and full of herself and we now live in an age where people spend their leisure time dissecting every single piece of media that comes across their faces down to the atoms and mostly find it lacking. I am uncomfortable with what she said in the book and I'm uncomfortable with her lack of clue about an appropriate way to respond to the concerns, but I'm also uncomfortable with the now-common practice of the entire internet putting someone on trial and debating endlessly about whether the person is worthy or not and then rendering a verdict. It is mob justice and it makes me uneasy. I'm not saying people are wrong about it, but I do think there are people who are just happy to have a reason to pile on her.
So there's that, BUT ALSO, she very clearly thinks that she's found the secret to being able to get away with saying and doing whatever the fuck she wants and expressing every unfiltered though that crosses her mind without any consideration of how it will affect other people, and it seems apparent that because she was so smart and articulate as a child her parents just let it all slide and didn't give her any limits. And that's allowed her to flourish artistically and have the confidence and stamina to write and produce her own critically acclaimed TV show. But it also makes her deficient in certain ways as a human being, it appears. And if anyone registers an objection to anything she does she can sidestep them by, to quote Amber, the disproportionately confident reality-show contestant with one leg as played by Amy Poehler on SNL, basically saying "Yeah, I farted. JEALOUS?"
So in conclusion, I don't really have a conclusion. I've followed this whole thing with interest. It's dimmed my opinion of her, for sure.
Crowbridge- Posts : 705
Join date : 2011-11-16
Location : California
Re: Celebrity Feuds
This is excellent. You offer some wonderful observations on the whole subject.
I kind of got this impression that she was the sort who never quite got over being a precocious child. At some point (and there is always a point) you can't stand behind that label, and have to (hopefully) move on to having a strong well-developed character. Otherwise you will exhaust everyone around you. So far though, she is still managing to cling to it.
I agree she is an interesting person at times, but I am curious if she can create/evolve beyond this present state.
Speaking as a parent (especially as one of a seven year old) I can't help but think, "JESUS CHRIST... where were your parents to teach you boundaries? " This is a conversation I am always having with my kids. (because they do like to wind each other up.) The right to space. The right to not have our bodies touched. The awareness of how we make others feel through our actions and words. That you have to think about the world beyond you. It's one of the basic lessons in raising another human. "How not to be a self-entitled thoughtless jerk."
I kind of got this impression that she was the sort who never quite got over being a precocious child. At some point (and there is always a point) you can't stand behind that label, and have to (hopefully) move on to having a strong well-developed character. Otherwise you will exhaust everyone around you. So far though, she is still managing to cling to it.
I agree she is an interesting person at times, but I am curious if she can create/evolve beyond this present state.
Speaking as a parent (especially as one of a seven year old) I can't help but think, "JESUS CHRIST... where were your parents to teach you boundaries? " This is a conversation I am always having with my kids. (because they do like to wind each other up.) The right to space. The right to not have our bodies touched. The awareness of how we make others feel through our actions and words. That you have to think about the world beyond you. It's one of the basic lessons in raising another human. "How not to be a self-entitled thoughtless jerk."
Genevieve- Posts : 679
Join date : 2011-10-21
Re: Celebrity Feuds
From her tweets:
Like Lena Dunham, I think I was weird 7-year-old, but all I did back then was spend my time daydreaming about being chief engineer of a starship like B'lanna Torres and trying to find Narnia whenever I came across a wardrobe. When I think "weird 7-year-old stuff that would be embarrassing to admit to as an adult" I think of, like, that kid who ate his own boogers. NOT THIS.
Instant Monkeys, your whole post hits the nail on the head. It made me think of that Flannery O'Connor quote: "Everywhere I go I'm asked if I think the university stifles writers. My opinion is that they don't stifle enough of them."
I wil also echo every WHERE WAS AN EDITOR comment. Random House sunk how many millions of dollars into this? Then again, maybe somebody thought the potential controversy would help sales, so they could make back the ridiculous advance they paid her.
Thanks for the congratulations, Lena! I did, in fact, make it through childhood without looking at another little kid's vagina. (Seriously, that takes effort. It's not you can just glimpse it when you're changing into swimsuits.)And by the way, if you were a little kid and never looked at another little kid's vagina, well, congrats to you.
Like Lena Dunham, I think I was weird 7-year-old, but all I did back then was spend my time daydreaming about being chief engineer of a starship like B'lanna Torres and trying to find Narnia whenever I came across a wardrobe. When I think "weird 7-year-old stuff that would be embarrassing to admit to as an adult" I think of, like, that kid who ate his own boogers. NOT THIS.
Instant Monkeys, your whole post hits the nail on the head. It made me think of that Flannery O'Connor quote: "Everywhere I go I'm asked if I think the university stifles writers. My opinion is that they don't stifle enough of them."
I wil also echo every WHERE WAS AN EDITOR comment. Random House sunk how many millions of dollars into this? Then again, maybe somebody thought the potential controversy would help sales, so they could make back the ridiculous advance they paid her.
Poubelle- Posts : 691
Join date : 2011-10-22
Re: Celebrity Feuds
So apparently, Bill Cosby isn't just a stealth sexual assaulter. He's also a sucker puncher.
naughty zoot- Posts : 1103
Join date : 2011-10-21
Location : Western Mass
Re: Celebrity Feuds
The near total lack of celebrity defenders of Cosby makes me think a lot of people didn't like him before/regardless of the allegations.
Binky- Posts : 1041
Join date : 2011-10-24
Re: Celebrity Feuds
Seth Rogen was on Bill Maher's show and he mentioned that he heard about the allegations years ago from being friends with Hannibal Burress and always mostly side eyed that no one talked about it, and I remember from Eddie Murphy's RAW Richard Pryor was like "Fuck Bill Cosby". I think him trying to act like the patriarchal moral police of the black community earned him more "ugh shut up, Bill." even putting aside that he has had these allegations and rumors for years.
Kiran- Posts : 2583
Join date : 2011-10-21
Re: Celebrity Feuds
Michelle Hurd on Cosby
(he was inappropriately touchy with her, and a friend got the roofy/rape MO).
(he was inappropriately touchy with her, and a friend got the roofy/rape MO).
particle_person- Tech Support
- Posts : 1973
Join date : 2011-10-21
Re: Celebrity Feuds
Lou Ferrigno's wife accuses Cosby.
I say we let Lou handle it.
Then there's this:
I say we let Lou handle it.
Then there's this:
In 1989, Cosby was invited to Notre Dame to speak to a group of about 50 black graduates. While speaking with the students, Cosby asked All-American tackle Dean Brown what his GPA was. When Brown told him it was a 2.5, Cosby proceeded to humiliate him in front of the other students and parents:
"What do you think of a 2.5 average?" Cosby asked.
"I think it's decent," replied Brown, who was recently drafted by pro football's Indianapolis Colts.
Cosby snarled back: "2.5 is OK if you have a mental disorder. You should be ashamed of yourself. You should have worked harder."
Tears streamed down the 290-lbs. Brown's face as he tried to defend himself: "I worked hard. I did my best..."
But Cosby cut him short. "You didn't do enough."
The Dude- Posts : 1141
Join date : 2011-10-25
Age : 50
Location : Peoples Republic of Boulder, South Rectangle
Re: Celebrity Feuds
It's like he's been trying to succeed at every single kind of asshole behavior.
jstilwe- Posts : 458
Join date : 2011-10-21
Age : 45
Location : Georgia, US
Re: Celebrity Feuds
After reading all the condescending, holier-than-thou crap that's been mentioned here, I am floored by the fact that Cosby's assholish behavior isn't more widely-known.
whatthedeuce- Posts : 2616
Join date : 2011-10-26
Age : 39
bookworm- Posts : 1083
Join date : 2011-10-22
Age : 44
Location : Georgia
Re: Celebrity Feuds
Randy Quaid is unhappy with Rupert Murdoch. NSFW. How is he still walking the streets?
naughty zoot- Posts : 1103
Join date : 2011-10-21
Location : Western Mass
Re: Celebrity Feuds
I'm getting a ridiculous amount of amusement from Nicki Minaj vs. Taylor Swift (with bonus passive-aggressive commentary from Katy Perry and Bruno Mars faking a feud with Ed Sheeran.)
Hee.
Hee.
BrightEyes- Posts : 262
Join date : 2011-10-23
Re: Celebrity Feuds
I love Bruno for picking a fake fight with Ed.
whatthedeuce- Posts : 2616
Join date : 2011-10-26
Age : 39
Re: Celebrity Feuds
I'm kinda o.O at both of them. If I'm reading this correctly, Nicki is mad because she got nekkid and didn't get nominated. Not because her song was better or the video was better, but because nekkid. And Taylor really needs a "get a grip" friend. Maybe two.
Putli Bai- Posts : 671
Join date : 2011-10-21
Re: Celebrity Feuds
Well I think Nicki's argument was that a black woman can make a video with similar amounts of nudity as a white woman and one is considered vulgar and the other art (whether she'd be making this argument had it been about someone else I don't know) I think she was referring to Miley Cyrus and wrecking ball when Taylor acted a fool.
Kiran- Posts : 2583
Join date : 2011-10-21
Re: Celebrity Feuds
Did his publicist really refer to Penn as one of the "greatest actors and humanitarians of our time?" Baaaaarf.
inversed- Posts : 1300
Join date : 2011-10-27
Age : 42
Location : Newcastle, UK
Re: Celebrity Feuds
I thought Jude Law was one of the greatest actors of our time?
Yeah, I'm Team Please Let Sean Penn Be Deposed So He Has To Answer For His Douche Behavior Towards Madonna and Buttercup
Yeah, I'm Team Please Let Sean Penn Be Deposed So He Has To Answer For His Douche Behavior Towards Madonna and Buttercup
Snarryfan- Posts : 407
Join date : 2011-10-21
Age : 42
Re: Celebrity Feuds
In a way this is good. So many people don't even know about Sean Penn. Now he's putting it all out there.
Kiran- Posts : 2583
Join date : 2011-10-21
Re: Celebrity Feuds
Aaron Sorkin vs. Tim Cook
I'm putting myself in Tim Cook's shoes. If someone was making a movie about a good friend or family member who had passed away, and made them look not great in it (regardless that it may be absolutely accurate), it probably wouldn't sit well with me either and I would feel they were somehow exploiting that person's legacy.
I have no particular admiration for Steve Jobs so it's not like I feel personally offended by it, but if Sorkin can't see why people who were close to Steve Jobs might feel terrible about this, he is clearly clueless. What he said about Apple is not false, but bringing up those things in this context feels kind of a petty blow rather than an actual moral issue that Sorkin has with Apple.
Also I think I would be more sympathetic to Sorkin's side if he wasn't always flying off the handle at the smallest bit of criticism.
I'm putting myself in Tim Cook's shoes. If someone was making a movie about a good friend or family member who had passed away, and made them look not great in it (regardless that it may be absolutely accurate), it probably wouldn't sit well with me either and I would feel they were somehow exploiting that person's legacy.
I have no particular admiration for Steve Jobs so it's not like I feel personally offended by it, but if Sorkin can't see why people who were close to Steve Jobs might feel terrible about this, he is clearly clueless. What he said about Apple is not false, but bringing up those things in this context feels kind of a petty blow rather than an actual moral issue that Sorkin has with Apple.
Also I think I would be more sympathetic to Sorkin's side if he wasn't always flying off the handle at the smallest bit of criticism.
Morning Angel- Posts : 477
Join date : 2011-10-24
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