Marvel Cinematic Universe

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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe

Post  Carrie Ann on Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:17 pm

When Matt came into their dorm room in the flashback, Foggy was looking at a 2010 course guide. Assuming that was the beginning of law school, they should have graduated in spring of 2013. It seemed like they were summer associates at the Big Law Firm, as that's when you get the offers to join as regular associates post-graduation. But I think the writers aren't really doing the law school/summering/associate process as it works in the real world. You don't summer after graduation, but I think we're supposed to think that's what was happening, and then they decided not to accept the permanent offers.

Wow, a lot of words to say: yes, I think we are to assume that when the series began, they had very recently graduated and then passed the bar. So maybe the series starts in Fall of 2013? I agree that they look and seem older than ~26 (CC is 32 and EH is 37) so for now, I'm going to guess that they both worked for a few years in between undergrad and law school.
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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe

Post  Corvus on Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:30 pm

From my legal experience:

Pre-law, looking at law schools
Law school, looking at internships
Internship/Temp work, looking at anything to pay the bills
Alien invasion, looking at end of world
Alien invasion cancelled, looking at rebuilding of civilization (at least the local version thereof)

That's what I find so engaging about the premise of the show: how is the regular world affected by the recent Marvel Universe events, on a very street view level? I thought SHIELD was going to explore that theme, but really hasn't done much of it. Very insular with its various ultrasupersecret organizations (with jumbojets and aircraft carriers) that only marginally interact with hoi polloi. 'Daredevil' shows a lived-in world, with humans living in it.


Last edited by Corvus on Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:40 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe

Post  laddical on Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:36 pm

I recall a line of dialogue that implied Matt was about 29 or 30. But I also recall a line in that might have said it's been 15 years since Jack was killed which would make him 24 or 25.

At any rate, even with Jack's "investments", Matt is still a working class kid; as is Foggy. So it's entirely possible neither of them were able to go straight from high school to college to law.
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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe

Post  Carrie Ann on Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:33 pm

So now that I'm done with the season, I have some concerns about the relationships and the lack of women on this show. I like Karen as a character, but I don't find the actress particularly strong, and I don't really feel what they want me to feel for her and Matt. Anyone else feel that way?

I also felt like toward the end of the season, there was a lot of talk about the three of them (inc. Foggy) as though they'd built up some great friendship, when really, it seemed like they'd known each other for a few weeks. A downside to the marathon-style viewing experience maybe, but I just didn't see a lot of on-screen evidence for the three of them being some great team. I saw Foggy + Karen, and Foggy + Matt, but not really Karen + Matt or K/M/F together.

So then there's Claire. Why was she only in five episodes? For people who know more than I do about the behind-the-scenes stuff with Marvel properties: is Rosario Dawson really going to be a link between shows? Will she always just be recurring here/elsewhere? Because I kinda let myself get attached to her and I feel a little duped, so if she's just gonna pop up now and then, I'll stop being concerned about the lack of character development or real role for her here and just assume I'll never get it.
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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe

Post  laddical on Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:07 pm

It's just speculation that Rosario will be one of the links but as a combination of two characters with ties to multiple street level heroes it's a strong possibility.

I liked Karen and am willing to buy that they'd become pretty close in the months they'd known each other (I'm guessing months because there was at least one point I think where we time jumped a whole month and then towards the end enough time was elapsing between story points that characters were noting that the masked man hadn't been very active lately).

And I loved Vanessa. Part of that might just be how much presence Ayelet Zurer provides (I thought she was a standout in her brief time as Lara Lor-Van in Man of Steel). And I guess one could argue she's mainly an appendage to Fisk. And maybe I'm carrying over knowledge of comic books that hasn't been earned on screen yet. But I suspect Vanessa is going to be a major factor - either in the remaining Defenders series or in Season 2.

ETA: After glancing through the latest issue of Spider-Woman, I wanted to reiterate my annoyance that
Spoiler:
Ben Urich was killed. Not just because Vondie Curtis-Hall is awesome (I will love him forever for "THROW YOUR MISTEMPERED WEAPONS TO THE GROUND!") but because Ben, like Night Nurse, had the potential to be an easy crossover character. In the comics, he works for the Daily Bugle, where he started out as a Spider-Man supporting character. Any time a street level character needs an exposition dump, Ben is the go-to reporter - which is kind of what he's doing in Spider-Woman right now. And with Spidey back in the MCU, when Ellison fired Ben my assumption was, "So he'll go freelance blog for a bit and then J. Jonah Jameson will offer him a position at the Bugle." AND THEN HE GOT FUCKING MURDERED.
I'm not cool with that.
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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe

Post  QueenSix on Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:39 pm

I think Karen/Matt/Foggy had built up a rapport based on Them Vs The World, especially as Matt told Karen at the start that he'd make sure nothing happened to her and Foggy fancied her a bit. I think it might have been based on Karen wanting friends (who wouldn't after what she'd been through) because when (okay I'll spoiler this as it happens in later episodes)
Spoiler:
Matt and Foggy have their falling out, it's Karen who is really pushing for them to get through it and she brings it up everytime she sees them.

So I don't know that I see them as having this great friendship, like you said, Carrie Ann, but they are a close bunch, I feel, because of what they've been through.

I read that Rosario Dawson was a late casting addition and that they had to work around other filming commitments of hers, which is why she's listed as recurring, and why she's a bit limited in her screen time.

I hid behind my hoodie when
Spoiler:
Vondie Curtis-Hall turned around there was Vincent D'Onofrio sitting in his apartment. He was excellent. He's such a graceful man, the way he speaks and moves but there was real humanity and emotion behind all that. I loved everytime he was on screen. Can we cross the comic-book universe streams and put Urich in the Lazarus Pits so he can come back? Pretty please?

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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe

Post  laddical on Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:46 pm

I second your idea in your last spoiler.
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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe

Post  spidey_88 on Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:58 pm

Well, you know in the Marvel Universe no one stays dead except Uncle Ben and even that is negotiable...

I do actually like Karen, but I was almost positive she was going to end up in a refrigerator somewhere. I am hoping that they give the trio more to do together next season instead of showing them separately. I think a lot of this season was just an experiment and hopefully they will hit their groove next season. I can't wait to get them crossing into the rest of the MCU, even if it is just more blatant references to other characters. There were a couple of vague ones, but I'd love to see even footage on the background of a TV or something. Coulson needs to come and have a chat with Daredevil.
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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe

Post  laddical on Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:06 pm

spidey_88 wrote:I do actually like Karen, but I was almost positive she was going to end up in a refrigerator somewhere.

In the comics, she ends up moving to LA to become an actress, gets into porn and hooked on heroin and sells Matt's secret identity for a fix. Matt takes her back anyway and then Bullseye kills her. Because nothing seals a woman's fate faster than Matt Murdock saying, "I love you" (which led to a very awesome story in Mark Waid's current run where Matt's cop girlfriend in San Francisco has her own bad guy and handles herself despite Matt worrying that he's ruined her life by saying the L-word).

Anyway... yeah. Hoping they don't use that story for TV Karen.

Seconded on Coulson needing to show some interest in the Defenders' business. Hands-off "just checking in" interest, but interest.

Also, since Paul Feige announced that Spider-Man is already active in the MCU we just haven't heard about it yet, it'd be nice if he at least made a cameo or rated some background news-ticker mentions or something.
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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe

Post  Carrie Ann on Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:48 am

QueenSix wrote:I think Karen/Matt/Foggy had built up a rapport based on Them Vs The World, especially as Matt told Karen at the start that he'd make sure nothing happened to her and Foggy fancied her a bit. I think it might have been based on Karen wanting friends (who wouldn't after what she'd been through) because when (okay I'll spoiler this as it happens in later episodes)
Spoiler:
Matt and Foggy have their falling out, it's Karen who is really pushing for them to get through it and she brings it up everytime she sees them.

So I don't know that I see them as having this great friendship, like you said, Carrie Ann, but they are a close bunch, I feel, because of what they've been through.

I read that Rosario Dawson was a late casting addition and that they had to work around other filming commitments of hers, which is why she's listed as recurring, and why she's a bit limited in her screen time.

Ah, thanks for the info about RD--I will hope she's an actual regular in S2, whenever that happens.

To your first points about K/M/F--I agree that this is what the writers were going for, and I totally see why these people would be friends. My problem is that it feels like Tell, Not Show. I didn't see that relationship develop--not with Karen and Matt, and not the three of them as a team. It was just like all of a sudden, Karen is saying things like, "Is this how it is now? We're just three people who don't even talk to each other?" And it was like...when did you spend all this time talking to Matt before? I saw the relationship develop between Karen and Foggy, and I believed it, and liked it until it was basically dropped for the second half of the season. And I absolutely believe it between Foggy and Matt. I just felt like the show wanted to have an established Team Us Vs The World, but didn't earn it. And it plays into my disinterest in this Karen/Matt thing they're obviously going for, so it just felt like an off-note to me.
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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe

Post  QueenSix on Wed Apr 15, 2015 1:17 pm

Carrie Ann, gotcha! I see what you mean.

Considering the amount of time Matt spent fighting and recovering from such fighting, it's surprising he got to have more than two words with Karen after he met her really!

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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe

Post  laddical on Wed Apr 15, 2015 1:29 pm

So the show finally deigns to give Team Transparency some valid specific complaints instead of vague hunches and assumptions. So in the big picture, they may have a point.

But since they don't have all the facts and Coulson's defining trait is honor, I'm still Team Coulson.

How did Fitz become the best thing about this show? His conversation with Hunter was pure gold.

Poor Simmons, though. Backs up Fitz and now has to deal with all this new info on Project Theta with that hanging over her. Hope she and May keep the faith, though.

I can't even with May's backstory, though. So much worse than I'd imagined. And in a way, darker than anything in Daredevil.
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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe

Post  Putli Bai on Wed Apr 15, 2015 6:12 pm

I'm with you on Team Coulson, Laddical. And damn if they didn't deliver the feels last night. Poor May. I love the plotting on this show - little things from last season keep cropping up. And now Raina is actually the Clairvoyant? How wild is that?

And you're right about Fitz. The only thing that could make the Coulson/Hunter Buddy Comedy more fun is if Fitz gets to hang with them. I know it won't happen in a million years, but Ian De Caestecker deserves a supporting actor Emmy nomination.
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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe

Post  vwlphb on Wed Apr 15, 2015 7:27 pm

Netflix (belatedly) adds descriptive audio tracks to Daredevil.

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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe

Post  laddical on Wed Apr 15, 2015 8:24 pm

Yay!
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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe

Post  bookworm on Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:16 pm

Netflix orders second season of Daredevil.

I still haven't watched it. I'm waiting for classes to end and then I'll binge.
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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe

Post  Gallifrey Girl on Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:43 pm

I really enjoyed Daredevil.  I went into it unfamiliar with the comic, and never having seen the Ben Affleck movie.

Great story, great stunts, great acting.  I looked on imdb to see what I'd last seen Vincent D'Onofrio in. Turns out it was an episode of Homicide Life on the Streets from 20 years ago. No wonder he was not as I remembered him.  Charlie Cox was in Stardust! I'm going to have to dig that out and rewatch it!

I was sad when
Spoiler:
Wesley died! I thought he was a great character.
That really took me by surprise. I also thought that
Spoiler:
Ben was going to die in a car bomb at one point, and that didn't happen and I breathed a sigh of relief and then he bit it not two minutes later!

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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe

Post  dday515 on Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:13 pm

Now that the MCU is being delivered via multuple mediums (ABC shows, Netflix shows) - would it be possible to split the threads? I get the original reasoning, but for now, for instance, I'm caught up on Agents of Shield, but not Daredevil, and I'm hesitant to look into this thread because of that (even though on quick look people have been great with spoiler tags for Daredevil).

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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe

Post  laddical on Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:21 am

Someone created a separate thread for Agent Carter, so I don't think it would be a problem if you want to create distinct threads. I started this one just for AOS and then asked them to rename it so we could discuss all of the intersections in one place but that doesn't have to be a restriction.
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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe

Post  laddical on Wed Apr 29, 2015 5:16 pm

Truly it is a great time to be a geek. Coulson hunting for Loki's staff, that whole exchange with Maria Hill... And on top of it, aside from larger connections this was just a damn fine episode. All of the original mains got a moment to shine, the show didn't exactly redeem Ward but still made me hate him less, and that moment when Skye got to be mini-May to was beautiful.
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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe

Post  Putli Bai on Wed May 06, 2015 6:15 pm

This show....man....

So I got to maybe like Ward again for a whole week. Now I'm back to wanting May to beat him to death with her bare hands.
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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe

Post  laddical on Wed May 06, 2015 6:47 pm

Honestly, I want Fitz to shoot everyone not named Skye or Coulson with icers. Repeatedly. Forever.

And then, when May finally locates her brain again, then she can punch the crap out of Ward. And Kara. And Cal. While Skye and Coulson do... something... to Jiaying. I don't know what. But something horrible.
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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe

Post  Corvus on Wed May 06, 2015 7:13 pm

May I be on Team Fitz Shoots Everybody, plz? On the one hand, the writing did a better job of showing Gonzales being a hard-ass, but a rational one, and Coulson being a self-important ass, but a self-aware one. Still came down to a dick-measuring contest, though, sheesh. May's brain may be on hiatus (way to prove her worse fears right, Coulson) but Bobbie's isn't. She should have iced them both and announced she's the new head of SHIELD (since apparently you can just do that).

Jiaying. Well. On the one hand, that was intemperate. (And murder, to be sure.) On the other hand, she's not wrong about the likely end result. Good thing Gonzales came armed to a peaceful meeting and nobody searched him. (On the third hand: YOUR HUSBAND IS A LOON, LADY. Get him out of sight. No telepath types in the ashram?)

Meanwhile, in the Most Improved category, happy that Chloe Bennet is getting better material and able to hit stride with it.
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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe

Post  laddical on Wed May 06, 2015 8:01 pm

I loved the bit where Coulson saw Hunter putting his feet up and said, "I think we've been spending too much time together." Hunter's another one that's presently okay in my book.
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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe

Post  Putli Bai on Thu May 07, 2015 6:45 pm

May is the one character you can usually count on to be the voice of reason, and even she's got her panties in a bunch. I just can't imagine why Coulson wouldn't have told her about Theta Protocol, if it was just the moth-balled helicarrier. I had fan-wanked this whole scenario where Theta Protocol was the Avengers Academy, and Coulson didn't tell May because they were having to cross-off "gifted" kid who were too messed up to play well with others. Now, I got nothin......

Ah well, maybe next week we'll get to see Bobbi kick the snot out of Ward. That would be fun.
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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe

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