Sherlock

QueenSix wrote:

sagitare wrote:My only quibble with this episode is that, like others noted, it would have been so much better to have ended it with John walking away from the grave. It was unnecessary to pull back and show Sherlock standing there.

See, I think that's a much gutting way to end it. John Watson is heartbroken, therefore we are heartbroken because Martin Freeman is such a superb actor. And then we see that Sherlock is still alive so there's no reason for John Watson to be upset but then you realise that Sherlock faked his own death and kinda deliberately destroyed his own friend because it's John's reaction that will sell Sherlock's death to the sniper.

For me I think by the end it's relatively clear that Sherlock isn't dead, particularly when he's so insistent to John that he be positioned just so on the street and that he's to keep focused on him throughout the conversation. At the very least the viewer knows there's something up Sherlock's sleeve, so when you know - or at least strongly suspect - that Sherlock has pulled a fast one, not seeing Sherlock alive and well at the end doesn't mitigate the emotional punch of what Sherlock had to do to John in order to successfully pull off his scheme (IMO), because as you mentioned, if it isn't real to John then no one would believe it at all. Which reminds me of a bit that made me laugh - when Moriarity is threatening Sherlock with the death of his friends, Sherlock's first response is, "John?", and Moriarity says, "All of them." I honestly expected Sherlock to respond with, "So, John?" Heh.

Also, ending the episode without throwing the viewer that last little bone that their suspicions are correct would have been a great way to just not satisfy the viewer's expectation of seeing their theory confirmed. That way there could perhaps be a little seed of doubt sown that maybe Sherlock wasn't faking it...at least until, what, two minutes after the show aired and Gatiss tweeted that they were doing Season 3? :-D

I think deep down John will know and understand why Holmes had to do this as he did, but that's not going to make it any easier for either of them.

So much to admire in Freeman's performance, I don't even know where to start...well, at the beginning because truly, he gutted me in that first minute. Right from the opening as he's sitting seemingly calm in the therapist's office you can see the effort he's putting into just breathing by the way his chest is rising and falling. Those small sounds he made, like his emotions are just lodged in his throat and he can't speak, when he's trying to tell the therapist that Holmes is dead, and then later when he sees the body being turned over. Putting his military face on at the grave and marching away (someone on the other board noted that he's also limping a bit as he's doing this? I totally didn't catch that, not surprisingly given that I was face first into a wad of kleenex), even the decision to just see him crying by his reflection in the stone was so great. And, of course, the amazing "I was so alone, and I owe you so much" moment which just...yes. So, so unexpected yet so perfectly Watson, and so perfectly played by Martin.

Ugh, that line KILLS me.

I'm super pleased that they're doing season 3. I was afraid that Freeman and Cumberbatch would both be way too famous now to return for another one.

I have always wished that in the post-Reichenbach Holmes/Watson reunion, the first thing Watson does after learning that his friend faked his own death is punch that son of a bitch right in the face. I have high hopes for this on the next season of Sherlock.

In The Return of Sherlock Holmes, Holmes explains that he realized at the moment of faking his death that it would be a unique opportunity to strike at Moriarty's organization. I think that the BBC showmakers have done a fine job of updating that and raising the stakes; I would believe that Mycroft has possibly made some sort of agreement with Sherlock to play this all out in order to bring down Moriarty and several of his henchmen. They then raised the stakes by having Moriarty directly threaten John, Mrs. Hudson, and Lestrade in the final conversation (fantastic omission of Molly there - it's an almost unbelievable oversight of Moriarty's to not be watching her, too, but that can be forgiven).

I think the scene I'm still digesting is the one in the reporter's flat. Sherlock may have had a tiny inkling that she was harboring Moriarty, but I find his face difficult to read during the row after he shows up. He's almost certainly figuring out that Mycroft gave information to Moriarty, but he mostly seems to be admiring the scheme! Throughout the 'fall,' Sherlock seems to struggle to stay focused. I think this is because Moriarty has truly hit at his soul as well as his heart - he may not be a good person, but he is never false. And Moriarty has suddenly made him not only appear to be false, but forced him to lie. What a wonderful job they've done writing two characters that are exactly flipsides of the same coin.

I watched S1E1 today since it's been a few weeks and I wanted to see again how John got pulled into Sherlock's orbit. HARD TO WATCH now knowing what they'll go through 18 months later. I'm not a slashy 'shipper for the sake of slash, but damn if I'm not sailing on this one. I think one can find love in the oddest of places sometimes, and these boys are nothing if not devoted.

sixchooks wrote:I'm not a slashy 'shipper for the sake of slash, but damn if I'm not sailing on this one. I think one can find love in the oddest of places sometimes, and these boys are nothing if not devoted.

That bit before Sherlock jumps, when he's entreating John to stay where he is, you get that wonderful shot of John's hand raised towards Sherlock, and then a cut to Sherlock's hand reaching down to John. Says it all, really.

This is not the best .gif ever, but it kind of worked me over. Gah.

I am currently toying with the notion of doing a side by side look at the "notes" from "The Final Problem" and S2E3. Both leave so much unsaid, and the modern one, especially, is full of clues to what is actually going on.

Also, hrm. People are now starting to talk about there being a Mary next season...Mrs. Watson. I don't think this is based on any show-runner or cast comments, just pure speculation. I had thought about how they might possibly marry and divorce John before Sherlock returns, but I guess in canon, he and Mary stay together, so...

I don't really have a problem with it, but I certainly don't want the third season to be *about* it.

Wow, I really did not expect this to have as emotional effect on me as this has had. Martin Freeman in particular was so wonderful in this, he broke my heart.

I'm still trying to hash out in my head whether I'm tickled or annoyed that both of Moffat's shows had nearly identical arcs for their leads in their latest episodes, with both Sherlock and the Doctor having to fake their deaths to escape the overwhelming legend that has surrounded them.

At least Amy had River to come and tell her the good news; who's John got? NOBODY. Somebody give that man a hug!!!!!!!!

One thing that doesn't quite gel for me is the genesis of Richard Brook. So, "Rich Brook" = "Reichenbach", which means Moriarty named the character within the last three months. Which means that the paper trail for Rich Brook can only go back at most three months - surely Sherlock (heh) could pull at that thread hard enough to pull the whole tapestry apart.

I can watch this whole extremely spoilerly tumblr gif post and get teary eyed all over again.

laddical wrote:One thing that doesn't quite gel for me is the genesis of Richard Brook. So, "Rich Brook" = "Reichenbach", which means Moriarty named the character within the last three months. Which means that the paper trail for Rich Brook can only go back at most three months - surely Sherlock (heh) could pull at that thread hard enough to pull the whole tapestry apart.

Well, exactly. That didn't really work for me, either. I suppose Moriarty could have extorted an acting portfolio for use in this type of situation, but it would have to hold up under public scrutiny. He was sort of claiming the equivalent of DJ Lance Rock (er, that's Yo Gabba Gabba) being pulled into an international crime ring and made the face of it. Or maybe the guy from Blue's Clues.

I think that Sherlock WAS going to unravel Brook's identity, until Moriarty made his friends' safety dependent on seeing him fall.

That's an interesting point about Rich Brook. I would say (because there's nothing I like better than talking about this type of thing here as my mother refuses to talk about it with me anymore since she asked an innocent question yesterday that included the world 'fall' and I clutched my chest dramatically & staggered backwards, holding back sobs - shut up! We're in a recession, I need to make my own fun) that yeah, Rich Brook's life story wouldn't have withstood very serious scrutiny but who exactly was going to scrutinise it that thoroughly. The tabloid reporter was clearly evil (she works for the Sun!! Deport her instantly!!) and out to get Sherlock so she wasn't going to. And Sherlock was the only person who could but by the time he found just how Moriarty was playing this game, he had no real chance to do anything about it.

I am going to shake my fist at the Sun newspaper from now until Sherlock returns. They helped kill him!!! *sobs dramatically on couch*

ETA: Stephen Moffat and Mark Gatiss are at the Radio Times Cover Party. The organisers doing a live blog and this was what Steven Moffat had to say about the finale:

9:29 Paul Jones:Here, as promised, is Mark Gatiss and now on a related theme, I have a SHERLOCK SCOOP from Steven Moffat!
9:31 Paul Jones: We've all been wondering how it was done - how did SH survive that fall? We all have our theories but the Moff says: "All of the fair clues were in there - NO-ONE HAS SPOTTED THE BIGGIE."

Oh lord, I hope they don't try to introduce Mary. There's no point to her, really, as once her own case had been solved she wasn't really seen again except by the odd mention. They'd have to make something up, and then there would be stuff about John being married, and married life and blah blah zzzzzz. We only get three episodes, I'd rather not waste any time by wandering off track like that.

Anyway, then John couldn't live with Sherlock in Baker Street, and that would be bad.

ActonBell wrote:I can watch this whole extremely spoilerly tumblr gif post and get teary eyed all over again.

Yes, I appear to have something in my eyes as well. *passes the Kleenex*

I'd actually like it if they introduced Mary - I always felt she rather got shafted by the original stories, given how incredibly accommodating she was about John constantly dashing off with Holmes. Married doesn't automatically equal boring, and it would be interesting to shake up the John-Sherlock dynamic and see how Sherlock reacts when he's not the entire focus of John's energy.

On a related note, does John actually have a job? We haven't seen him working since he fell asleep on his first day in The Blind Banker, have we?

Anyone fancy owning the tea set that was featured in The Reichenbach Fall? It's out of stock at the minute but they're sure to have more soon and then we can while away the time until series 3 by having imaginary tea parties with Sherlock and John and maybe Moriarty depending on how annoyed you are with 'ordinary people'.

sixchooks wrote:

laddical wrote:One thing that doesn't quite gel for me is the genesis of Richard Brook. So, "Rich Brook" = "Reichenbach", which means Moriarty named the character within the last three months. Which means that the paper trail for Rich Brook can only go back at most three months - surely Sherlock (heh) could pull at that thread hard enough to pull the whole tapestry apart.

Well, exactly. That didn't really work for me, either. I suppose Moriarty could have extorted an acting portfolio for use in this type of situation, but it would have to hold up under public scrutiny. He was sort of claiming the equivalent of DJ Lance Rock (er, that's Yo Gabba Gabba) being pulled into an international crime ring and made the face of it. Or maybe the guy from Blue's Clues.

I think that Sherlock WAS going to unravel Brook's identity, until Moriarty made his friends' safety dependent on seeing him fall.

I think at least part of the idea was Moriarty had the inside connections to concoct Rich Brook out of smoke and cotton candy. I noticed all of the "proof" was printed off the computer-- no newspaper hardcopies. Throw in a DVD of a show with a fake release date, and that's probably good enough for the level of scrutiny it would receive.

Ha, QueenSix, I was totally admiring that tea set during that scene. I seriously don't need a new tea set, though.

I hope they do introduce Mary. They should get the actress who played Judy in Love Actually because her and Freeman were adorable together.

Now, now, Freeman's adorable enough all on his own. To wit: this face.

I'm going to take issue with Moffat's presumption as well as his wording, although kudos for the Sherlockian nature of it ("what must it be like inside your tiny minds..."). I mean, has he read ALL THE INTERNET? I would think not, therefore to assume that "everyone" has missed "the biggie" is assuming too much. That being said, how Sherlock survived the fall isn't that interesting of a question. It's not the same question as, how did he simultaneously fool Moriarty, the hidden assassins, and John while keeping himself alive? which is THE final problem, if you will.

That being said, I think he survived it one of three ways. It was an illusion; someone else fell in his place; or he fell but did not die. Taking those in order, I am quite seduced by the idea of the fall being a total illusion somehow, even if they re-used psychotropic drugs. It's tempting to take one of my favorite lines from the phone call, "It's a trick" and have it refer to what's happening that moment instead of Sherlock trying to convince John that all that came before was the trick. But the daylight and the positioning of the boys would argue for great difficulty in pulling off an illusion. Sherlock does use the "keep your eyes fixed on me" line, like a master magician, but still...

Someone else? Alive or dead? Well, leaving aside the fact that John was upright and had his eyes fixed on Sherlock until he disappeared behind the bus, the shots of Sherlock falling clearly showed someone moving and therefore alive. Now, I think someone else could have been tossed out onto the street after Sherlock did the jumping - I did see how the hand John took looked very large and cadaverous and not freshly dead. It might not have even been a real body; it could have been a dummy with a molded head and arm. I don't like the theory that he tossed Moriarty over; it doesn't fit the rest of the visuals, and I don't think that Jim had that much blood left in him by the time Sherlock actually jumped. And a real living person to take the whole fall? That doesn't fit with the other planted clues in the episode.

So I think the only thing we are left with is jumping into the trash bags, which is how he survived, and...done? Why does there have to be a 'biggie'?

Esseilte wrote:Oh lord, I hope they don't try to introduce Mary. There's no point to her, really, as once her own case had been solved she wasn't really seen again except by the odd mention. They'd have to make something up, and then there would be stuff about John being married, and married life and blah blah zzzzzz. We only get three episodes, I'd rather not waste any time by wandering off track like that.

Anyway, then John couldn't live with Sherlock in Baker Street, and that would be bad.

Aw. I like Mary. She brings an interesting case to Sherlock, she's bright and she puts up with Sherlock. That's a bunch of win right there.

In my dream world, Molly would fit the Mary role nicely. She'd be fine with John bouncing off to do some good deeds with Sherlock and she can also assist Sherlock in the lab.

I also see Sherlock weirded out, but also like "SCORE! TWO RESOURCES!"

I really dig that idea.

I would be okay with Mary. As long as they don't have John already married when Sherlock comes back. I'm sure they're tempted by the melodrama of such a scenario and I hope they manage to stay away from it. It would feel like such a cop-out.

I think about the only way I'd be happy with Mary's existence is if John was married to her when Sherlock came back - and then she died ten minutes in, thus providing an excuse for John to move back in with Sherlock. Or if her case was the last one in the next series, then she dies ten minutes into the following episode...

I actually don't mind Mary in the books, as she and Holmes get on fine and she doesn't object to Watson spending time with Holmes, but I don't trust Moffat not to make too much of her and push her front and centre.

More from Steven Moffat:

Moffat admitted he had been following the fevered speculation about how Sherlock, played by Benedict Cumberbatch, could appear alive and well in the last scene of the episode, despite having apparently fallen to his death and, indeed, been buried. But according to Moffat, all the fans’ talk of switched corpses and mystery cyclists has been lacking a crucial detail.

"I’ve been online and looked at all the theories," Moffat told us, "and there’s one clue that everyone’s missed. It’s something that Sherlock did that was very out of character, but which nobody has picked up on."

Oh no! Now I have to watch the episode a few more times to see just what he does that's out of character! My life is so hard!! Etc.

I'd have no problem with Steven Moffat bringing Mary Morstan into future episodes actually. I think it'd be quite interesting to see how he and Mark Gatiss would tackle it. Of course, it'll probably be months before they even get started on pre-production so I'm not going to worry about her impact on the show until I actually have reason to.

Hmm, he cried or asked for help?

Asking for help - from both Molly and John, in different ways - was indeed out of character. He's cried before when acting, but I would describe the final phone call as an almost indistinguishable mix of acting and real feeling. I'm with Queen Six, I'd have to watch it again. There were a number of things that were arguably out of character, but I maintain that how he did it is still less interesting than why he had to. I expect a full, dizzying explanation, though, at the beginning of S3. Book!Sherlock takes a great deal of pleasure in detailing it to Watson.

Edit: the problem with having one of these ringtones is that I never want to actually answer the phone. I'm using Welcome to London and it makes me unspeakably happy.

I think about the only way I'd be happy with Mary's existence is if John was married to her when Sherlock came back - and then she died ten minutes in, thus providing an excuse for John to move back in with Sherlock. Or if her case was the last one in the next series, then she dies ten minutes into the following episode...

Hmm, sounds like a typical episode of Supernatural to me.