Marvel Cinematic Universe

I'm sorry - Ming Na is FIFTY?! Damn, girl! At first I thought she and Ward were just going to get their drink on but now I hope they had hot angsty sex too.

Turned 50 just this week. The AOS Facebook posted about it.

Oh, I definitely think they were doing it. The suggestive look, the standard implications of hotel rooms, Ward struggling for a minute before deciding to join her. And I'm in favor, because nothing could be less appealing to me than the combination of Ward and Skye. Whatever means fewer scenes of just the two of them, I'm all for it. I agree that his dynamic with Simmons was more interesting too.

Carrie Ann wrote: . . . And I'm in favor, because nothing could be less appealing to me than the combination of Ward and Skye.

Same here. I REALLY don't want that to happen, but I'm afraid TPTB will go for it because eye candy. Ward is growing on me, though. As mentioned upthread, he seems to be better when paired with non-Skye characters.

Skye is my least favorite character. I feel like the show is trying to force me to think she's awesome, which is the same reason I didn't like River Tam.

It's a draw between Skye and Fitz for my least favorite. Skye at least is partly my "type" physically (she's a girl), so I guess that gives her a slight edge over Fitz's asshattery.

Due to being sick I just DVR marathoned the entire 10 eps so far, and...I hope it gets better. I see, so far the main things I think sank Firefly back in the day: 1) episodic plotting with a deus ex machina and 2) generally the tone is just ALL OVER THE PLACE and 3) not-quite-solidified characterization. I mean, I think Coulson had clearer characterization in 30 cumulative minutes over six movies than he has in this entire show, and that can't entirely be explained away by the fact that he's a semi-immortal robot alien or whatever they're planning. I could also do with less Skye, but since this is a Joss Whedon show and she's a waify hot brunette I'm not holding my breath.

But I do think they have room for improvement, and since they have a full season pickup I think they'll get there. I assumed FitzSimmons would be the most annoying thing on the planet, but I actually LOVE them, especially Simmons. I also think Chloe Bennet does a great job; I just want less of her character and more team stuff. Ming-Na Wen and May are the stuff awesome is made of, and I LOOOVE that she and Ward are hooking up. Brett Dalton is...certainly pretty, isn't he? Why don't we just leave it at that.

I think that now that SOMETHING is finally happening this might be the stepping stone to some better stuff. I really enjoy Raina, actually, and find her interesting. So I'll definitely watch in January.

Please oh please oh please don't double back on Ward being Hydra. It's the single most interesting thing the show has done and having him be some kind of triple agent would just be so incredibly stupid, not to mention totally implausible.

Though it would be just like a SHIELD administrator like Hand to recruit Ward to fake her death to get in good with Hydra. But the logistics don't work. Hand didn't even know Hydra existed 24 hours before capturing Garrett and Garrett himself - if he's truly the Clairvoyant - probably knows enough to know whether Ward has been "inducted" or not.

I'm hoping Garrett's not the Clairvoyant, though. I'm hoping this is yet another double blind, because from the way things went down in The Winter Soldier, it sure sounds to me like the Clairvoyant is

Spoiler:

. Though I suppose if it means more time with Bill Paxton drawling out "Hail Hydra" every so often, I'm cool either way.

Paxton and

Spoiler:

need to have a drawl-off on who can make saying "Hail Hydra" sound more chummy. Texas or California?

I too hope they keep Ward evil...but me thinks Simmons is up to something as well.

I may have shrieked when the Hydra logo appeared at the end of the episode.

The only thing that could have made this ep better? Paxton telling Coulson: "Game over man, game over."

I was deeply disappointed we didn't get a "Game over" from Paxton.

I've been back and forth on whether Ward is really Hydra. Remember, when they were marching the prisoners away and Ward saw Paxton's character among the bad guys, Coulson took him by the arm and led him away from the others so they could talk,only we didn't hear the dialogue. And they exchanged a verrry meaningful look when Ward left with Hand. Also, while I can believe Hand might give him the go-ahead to shoot Paxton, I can't believe she'd do it while they're on a plane mid-flight.

My other theory - and this is purely speculation - is that Ward has one of those magic eyeball implants, and isn't acting on his own accord. That would also explain why he shot the fake Clairvoyant last week, and why he's all of the sudden macking on Skye. (you're choosing Skye over May? Seriously?) He certainly looked miserable enough at the end of the episode.

I wouldn't mind him staying evil, though, because that would give the a team a chance to trade up for Agent Triplett.

<shields eyes from above discussion> So I really want to watch this weeks episode but I haven't watched the new Captain yet? Should I wait?

Muggsy you should definitely wait.

Honestly, I waited until after I'd seen Cap to watch *last week*s episode. But I did find myself wondering during this week's what it might have been like to watch it before the movie. One spoils the other, as it were, so I was just wondering what someone who didn't know about the events of the movie would react to what happened here.

I'm super excited about everything that's happened. I'm excited we're getting more Hydra!Paxton, I'm excited about what's going on with Ward (whether or not he's actually evil or just a triple agent), I'm excited about May getting all emotional and her fractured relationship with Coulson, I'm excited that it seems we're going to get more Triplett.

Also, I agree that something is up with Simmons, which I'm excited about too.

Little bummed that we seem to have lost Victoria Hand, though.

Did y'all see what Brett Dalton did to his twitter? Heh.

I think Ward could be straight-up Hydra (which is interesting) or it could be revealed to be some uber-programming or eye implant thing (less interesting). But that was a GREAT episode in every way. But I tweaked to something being off when Ward lobbied so hard to act as escort to the Fridge...that didn't seem right to me. And I thought the meaningful look between Ward and Coulson was Coulson coming thisclose to figuring it out.

If we get Triplett on the team, though, then YES. I'm down for that.

Ward and Skye's "moment" had zero chemistry for me. He's way more interesting with May.

MaddyCat, I think you're right. If Coulson and Ward had a plan, there would have been no meaningful look. Ward looked back because his old life was over. Coulson caught the look and is now suspicious. Maybe he even tipped off Hand.

It is all I can do to keep from going spoiler hunting. I can't remember the last time I wanted to do that.

Must...be...strong!

Yeah, I saw that people thought Hand's death was faked and this is all a part of a plan, but then are the other three guards Ward shot also faking? I agree with both of you that he is Hydra, and now the question is how much control he has over himself. He certainly seems more self-aware than Bucky, but his eyes and affect went completely dead (might have been hard to distinguish from his usual mode, heh). So he's either really suppressing his feelings or he's semi-controlled somehow. I suspect the latter, as it makes it easier to redeem him later. Booooooooo.

I'm probably out at the end of this season anyway, because I'm just not sure this development does enough to solve my problems with the show. But if I do stick around, I hope the writers/producers will re-watch their own show to see what works and what doesn't, and rethink their plans. Skye and Ward is not going to work, period. That scene was actually painful to watch. I'm not sure I've ever hated an on-screen pairing as much as I hate them.

And what they're doing with Skye is not working. She hasn't proven herself to be so wonderful that everyone on the show needs to stand around having conversations about how wonderful she is. If she were, you wouldn't need to say it. Instead, she's just a Whedon Girl Genius (Willow, Kaylee, Fred) and I never found that archetype charming on any of his shows anyway. But Skye got like all the negatives of those characters with few of the positives, and a big fat nada when it comes to organic character/relationship development. They need to backburner her for awhile and pick a different protagonist.

Carrie Ann wrote:Skye and Ward is not going to work, period. That scene was actually painful to watch. I'm not sure I've ever hated an on-screen pairing as much as I hate them.

I think that scene was almost supposed to be painful? Because it came right on the heels of Coulson telling someone that Hydra gets under your skin by making you feel for them and sympathize and trust... and then immediately, Ward is pulling out this out of nowhere move on Skye that practically screams, "This is ironic juxtaposition meant to serve as a major hint that this guy is NOT GOOD".

It's funny, I find myself hopeful that other people were engaged and encouraged by the Big Twists, even when I myself was largely unmoved. I still would like for the show to become it wants to be. (Instead of acting like it already is, ahem.) My biggest obstacle in receiving the events in the way the writers apparently intend is that S.H.I.E.L.D. is kind of getting just what is coming to them. The high-handedness, military and institutional secrecy, overriding any law or jurisdiction because We Are S.H.I.E.L.D., all spelled monumental hubris to me. Coulson had been quite the prick to the general public (and even to his own people) because I Am S.H.I.E.L.D., though that got marginally better when he started having his existential crisis. Not much though, even at the end he had the nerve to be snotty to Mae, the one friend he has in the world, by saying she could be an ally and not a friend. Well, your allies are all nazis, and you are a science experiment, and her explanation made perfect sense, so you might want to dial it back a bit. Of course she had a secret communication line. You are in a massive supersecret spy organization. Don't they all? Don't you? I suppose the situation was emotional and he wasn't at his best. I only wish the show had shown his best a little more often.

Ming Na is very good at her job. Very nice of Mae not to point out that he may be shocked by recent revelations, she's been under a bit of strain herself since day one, hasn't she, knowing what had happened and that she might have to end him? (I, for one, snorted at the notion that Agent Ward was included in the roster to do a job that Mae would never let anyone but herself do, if it came to that.)

Ward, Skye and anyone that is not J. August Richards: don't care. Not even about the pretty silly scientists. Sorry, show. Richards manages to invest his character with a sense of decency and horror that I'm not quite finding in Coulson, certainly not in Agent Board. Why should I care if he's being mind controlled or blackmailed or robotically manipulated to do evil? He was robotically doing good, so pfft.

Mind you, I haven't kept up with the movies, so perhaps that weakens the gravity and import of it all.

Agent Hand: Hope it's not an attempted fake out, because Evil Bill Paxton might decide to toss the bodies off the airplane.

OK, so I can't say that this show is high drama or the greatest show ever, but it's gotten much better in the last 6 weeks. Ward's turn has been really well done, and I actually buy some of the conflict that he's feeling. I don't think he feels like he's made the wrong choice in siding with HYDRA, but that he can't convince Skye that he's now on the side of the angels. It looks like next week's episode will flesh out more of his relationship with Garrett and why he's where he is now. I don't think he'll ever be re-integrated with the group as a whole, but he might end up being a free agent or something.

Loved having Maria Hill back in the mix and I wish she were more of a regular on the show. Special effects are still subpar, but I'm willing to look past them, since they've managed to put less of a focus on them.

At any rate, I'm really enjoying it and the characters a lot more with the SHEILD/HYDRA turn and it's opened a lot of possibilities that didn't seem like they were there 6 months ago. Way to play the long con, Marvel.

I can't help but wonder if Skye's crazy hair when she and Coulson landed was a shout-out to the early complaints about Skye's perfect hair early on.

Wildog27 wrote:OK, so I can't say that this show is high drama or the greatest show ever, but it's gotten much better in the last 6 weeks. Ward's turn has been really well done, and I actually buy some of the conflict that he's feeling. I don't think he feels like he's made the wrong choice in siding with HYDRA, but that he can't convince Skye that he's now on the side of the angels. It looks like next week's episode will flesh out more of his relationship with Garrett and why he's where he is now. I don't think he'll ever be re-integrated with the group as a whole, but he might end up being a free agent or something.

Loved having Maria Hill back in the mix and I wish she were more of a regular on the show. Special effects are still subpar, but I'm willing to look past them, since they've managed to put less of a focus on them.

At any rate, I'm really enjoying it and the characters a lot more with the SHEILD/HYDRA turn and it's opened a lot of possibilities that didn't seem like they were there 6 months ago. Way to play the long con, Marvel.

It's like a completely different show, right? I actually look forward to it now, while before I was forcing myself to watch it out of faith in Joss's TV products.

RiverThames wrote:I can't help but wonder if Skye's crazy hair when she and Coulson landed was a shout-out to the early complaints about Skye's perfect hair early on.

I had that same exact thought. :-)

Good grief. I'm not that familiar with how Whedon and his crew runs things (because I've never watched Buffy, Angel and only saw Firefly once), but I'm just happy that things are heating up now. But it's so close to the end of the season also.

Part of me wonders if it was because of CA2 that they had to hold onto the action for so long, given movie scheduling, etc., but I think I've said that before.

And Ming-Na Wen as Agent May continues to fill me with glee. The previous week with her mother just made me squeal out loud because it was like a Joy Luck Club reunion on the show. I hope to see more of her mom.

I'm still unimpressed, but I am glad Ward is a bad guy, even if I find the writing and acting choices confusing. I tried to find a name for this trope, but the thing where a deluded stalker/abductor will seem utterly baffled that his object of obsession would think he would hurt her (or that she would want to escape, etc.)--that's how Brett Dalton played that scene with Skye in this episode. Like someone unhinged. And to me, that doesn't make him like tragically evil, but that seems to be the route they want to go with him. That he really LOVES Skye, and she loves him, and eventually her love will save him, blah. But I wish he'd just be their sort of recurring nemesis instead, because even with Ward being evil, nothing could be less appealing to me than Skye/Ward.

Also, man, that flying car bit last night was so cartoony. I don't understand the tone of this show sometimes.